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I'm talking about audience recordings, soundboards and FM broadcasts. I think this is what people use use to create illegal physical copies to sell. Generally lots of live music exists and is and has been freely distributed often with the encouragement of bands and musicians with the idea it will traded and enjoyed by fans of the band. Anyways looking around on line, in particular on the Internet Archives, there's a world of live recordings available for download for free.
I've always been a fan of released live recordings but after awhile the obvious production on most of them becomes kind of annoying. More than a decade ago I started collecting free live recordings, lossless and some higher resolution off the internet. Sure there's more crap than quality around but IMO finding good stuff is more than worth the effort required.
There's a rawness to many of these recordings that I find really appealing and equal to some of my favorite released LPs but rarely matched by a released live album. Good studio craft can be very good too but different. Being rock and not mic'd like a classical or jazz record they probably would be dismissed as crap by many audiophiles but I like them and consider them an essential part of my home audio experience. Very much like being at a live show - which is what soundboards and audience recording are. Best but hardest to get good ones are audience recordings, FM broadcasts are either recorded before or after transmission so it's a hit or miss but there's good stuff there too. Soundboard quality can be all over the place and I suspect some production might go into a few of them - sometimes a good thing and sometimes not.
The caveats for me is never pay for these things but occasionally they become official releases so when they do it's a good idea to pick it up so those who created the music can get a few bucks for their effort. And go see them when/if they come to town for a show.
Follow Ups:
Arhcive.com is endless goodness.
The filters are really cool and can help if someone is looking for higher resolution recordings. I've taken many downloads from the Live Music Archives.
Long pole, two mics separated by 12". Yup, that's binaural. I gotta bunch, including first gen AUD live cassette tape. Cannot beat with stick.
Maybe they did which seems to make much more sense.
Nt
Number one it's easier. Not much stereo image from two mics 12 inches apart pointed straight ahead. You might as well have one better mic and a good mono recording. Another benefit is the mic capsules are so close together you don't have to worry about phase issues.
Not to say a spaced pair can't make a good recording but for something that works every time and produces better stereo image I would use xy.
Edits: 01/05/25
Maybe you're not familiar with the binaural dummy head. 12" apart is the same dimension as the distance between human ears.
Edits: 01/05/25
The human brain does a really good job of putting things in phase. Recording can be trickier. A dead brain probably doesn't make much difference.
Nt
nt
Nt
nt
By the time you eat the pudding it's too late.
Nt
.
I missed the Grateful Dead entirely in my younger days, but I'm on the bus now and really like the annual subscription service that yields four mailings a year. Some of those are sourced from audience recordings (some from soundboard tapes), but the sound is spiffed up to make them enjoyable and, as many Heads will tell you, they're a big improvement over the audience tapes that have circulated. They're well worth checking out at dead.net.
Nt
nt
Nt
I saw them twice at Shoreline Amphitheatre in the early 1990's but I don't have any of the homegrown tapes. I worked at Silicon Graphics in Mountain View at the time and it was easy walking distance to the shows from my office so we didn't have to deal with parking and traffic.
Only saw them once and it was likely the shortest set they ever played.
Have a deep appreciation for what they were and what they accomplished
but that appreciation (nee respect) always is stronger if I don't have to hear
them.
BTW, Eddie Palmieri and band opened this show.
Saw him countless times thereafter.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Wow, an epic show for sure, look at that lineup. I didn't see that many i would call epic, other than Hans Zimmer's and getting "picked up" mixing a show once and that one maybe strange is better word than epic..
I did see the Dead, epic in a weird way. In the way old days, on what they called underground radio, i heard a song called "cream puff war" and i got the album at the record store. I was a little bummed, that was the only song like that but a lot of albums were like that, one or two really good songs.
Anyway later in the late 80's the company i worked for was showing a Servodrive subwoofer at AES in NY.
This my first time to NY and presenting anything at AES etc, then our salesman arranged to go to the Dead show at the old MSG and talk to the sound guy about subs for Phil to play bass through.
So we were stage left with Phil's sound guy talking for a while and when they were playing mid song, we walked out in front of Phil with a sound level meter and took measurements (where we were at about 10 feet in front of Phil's rig "fast" peaks about 120-130dB depending and "slow" peaks around 105-115).
We were on stage standing there for maybe 5 min, seemed like an eternity but the strange part was the stage lights are so bright, you couldn't see more than a few people in the audience. You could sure hear them through.
We watched the rest of the show back at stage left. There i saw something that gave me the willies to top the weird evening off. There was a bundle of cables about a foot in diameter coming down from the flown speakers. At one point it was clear that the speakers and floor were moving / oscillating slowly in opposite directions and this was clear from the way the cable bundle end rose and fell as it met the floor.
I would guess this was 10 inches, maybe a foot of motion and like i said this gave me "an unsettled feeling" (is either ceiling or floor safe to be moving that much?). I think that is not the building they have now but am not sure, have not been back haha.
Overall an evening i will never forget and occasionally i will put on some old Dead.
Tom Danley
Danley Sound Labs
I saw Heart in a small College indoor stadium that held basketball games. the seats were those pull out bleachers. During Barracuda and Crazy on You the whole bleachers were vibrating and sliding around on the floor a little. Quite an experience.
Gsquared
to be rather spectacular, especially Lesh & Garcia and their various geetars.
They were NOT afraid to experiment!
The Wall of Sound was a marvel too though I never experienced it in person.
Dead sound and equipment folk were certainly devoted and it took a village to keep all that going.
No doubt all of them were used to the floor moving, being from the Bay Area one adjusts to it after a while.
I swear you could see the stage at Winterland in motion to the music some shows.
Yeah, this is really generic sounding and Post Pigpen they really expanded more into the Dead
Zone with the occasional great song.
American Beauty is a good LP and Robert Hunter was a godsend to them.
View YouTube Video
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I was never a Deadhead but I still enjoy hearing them occasionally in my listening setup.
Those 1970's bands in your post are all in my music library as I consider myself to be a "70's child" ;-)
Was a LOT of fun!
Great era for shows here when Bill Graham was alive.
You can probably stream any of that you want to sample, the second
pic is the CD box set included because of different billing from the
original poster.
Saw everyone on that bill more than once over the years.
EXCEPT the Dead!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Ah, back in the day when the methane from the buried landfill would still flame up. Guess you could light up your doobies that way too (not you personally, but some of the crowd I'd suspect).
Fun SGI and Audio fact: My longtime dealer Brian Hartsell (RIP) of the now departed as well Analog Room, 's wife was an executive at SGI back then. Her stock options allowed him to duplicate his vast record collection at his condo in Hawaii.
Happy New Year Abe!
.
Unfortunately not. I've been waylaid by health problems for several months now and haven't been able to do much at all. I wish I could say it's getting better, but not so far. I have some surgical procedures scheduled soon and we'll see how things go after those. Hoping for a better year than the last one, especially the last few months of it.
Take care of yourselves people, things can get bad in a hurry if you don't.
.
SGI was a fun place to work. Unfortunately for me, my stock options weren't worth much by the time I left.
Another fun fact:
SGI designed the first 64-bit 3D video gaming console for Nintendo in the mid 1990's. It was the Ninendo 64 and the SGI employees all received one.
Bought my youngest her first bike, used, a Specialized Hard Rock, and there was an obscure SGI sticker on it. Turns out Specialized used SGI machines to design their bikes back in the day and manufactured a bunch for SGI to provide to their employees. Did you happen to get one? Great bike, unfortunately since stolen.
...but SGI was big into 3D CAD / CAM/ CFD / FEA back in the day, not to mention special effects for big budget movies and TV. I had no idea about Specialized.The mug is from AutoDesk & Sun Microsystems sponsored CAD CAMP in 1993. I was there demonstrating realtime 3D graphics, rotating and zooming in-out of large texture mapped 3D models on the SGI Indigo workstation. I didn't hire on with Sun until 2000. It was all fun and games but just a blip in time for me working in "Silicon Valley." I loved it.
Edits: 01/04/25
I misremembered, it was SUN that they used! I'm old, forgetting more and more these days.
I think you and I were in Silly Valley at the best of times. I worked at a law firm (founded by a man who had come out to Moffet Field during WW2 as a blimp pilot/instructor!) that represented all the old school Co's at their pinnacle. It all went downhill in the early 2000's. Greed got the better of all of them. I quit and became the stay at home dad, my wife is still in it, solely for the real old school pension she qualifies for in 7 years. One of the last! She actually started at a firm that represented Apple against The Beatles (Apple Corps) when Apple SWORE at trial, no, nope nothing to do with music at all!
I miss those days, hard, hard work, but we had fun and it did feel like a famiily (met my wife at a company Christmas party, she was someone elses blind date). Now, churn and burn is what it's all about. Looking to follow you or Ivan out, maybe Colorado or New Mexico. My daughter is applying to UC Boulder for the fall, she loved it when she visited. California schools are no longer a realistic option for most kids.
CU Boulder is not exactly inexpensive but I image it's less costly than many California schools. The Boulder area, including rent, is a bit expensive.
Colorado State University in Fort Collins is about an hour north of Boulder and is less expensive overall.
Both are nice college towns with lots to do.
The companies I worked for in Silicon Valley all had a start-up vibe to them. We worked long hours, company paid for pizza dinner, beer bashes, and occasional on-campus bands on Fridays. We had a few off-site 'team building' events too. I think the beer bashes became a liability so they disappeared. But man, we DID work long hours and enjoyed it. But I was much younger then!
She's applying all over the country, including, gulp the South. Pretty much have to if you're from CA and aren't ultra competitive, even the "better" Cal States are tough to crack. She's got a better shot at the Big 10 than the Pac 10, or whatever they are now. Really wants to go to a school in San Diego, even though I've tried to talk her out of it, just too expensive. Already accepted to Loyola Chicago, with a huge scholarship which shocked us all.
My firm operated on the start up model (many of our clients were in fact start ups and VC's and so that's the model they were comfortable dealing with. Something changed towards the end of my tenure and the powers that be moved backwards to the old school firm mentality. That really took the wind out of lots of us, still hard hard work, but NONE of the former rewards.
If your daughter doesn't (a) really know what to major in, and (b) have any AP classes, what about staying home, attending a junior college, perhaps getting part-time work, and eventually transferring to a 4-year university?
I took my kids on college tours. SF State and CSUEB are hurting for new recruits.
That said, in the late-70s and early-80s, one of my relatives from Hawaii went to Colorado State. He had Rams shirts, and said he loved Fort Collins and other parts of Colorado. IIRC, he said he was closer to Cheyenne, than Denver.
And then a different relative from Hawaii made it to University of Colorado Boulder. Like my other relative, she said it took a couple years, to establish residency, and thus get a lower tuition. But she loved it there.
Oh heavens no. I want her to experience the true college life, from orientation to graduation. I did the JC route, among others and transferred to UCLA. I never felt apart of the people there. It's not just about the degree, but about meeting people and having experiences with them from day one. When I got into UCLA the people I met had already formed their bonds with those they went through August orientation with. I want her to have that life from the beginning. I would rather she go to Alabama or Penn State from start to finish than the JC route.
Oh, and she knows what she wants to major in and has plenty of AP's, it's not that her record isn't substantial, it's that the competition is so strong. The $100,000 scholarship from Loyola Chicago has shown her that she has options, they're just outside of California.
It's all changed so much since my day. And one thing that is non negotiable is living on campus for at least her first two years, none of the commute bullshit that I had to do. I feel so bad for the kids at the UC's here that have no housing. She visited UCLA and one of the things they've done is drastically build more housing, unlike UCB or your Alma mater UCSC.
In 2010 and 2011, I worked at Stanford Student Housing. Like other full-sized universities, Student Housing was under the larger RDE (Residential & Dining Enterprises). Each year, the RDE's from the Pac-12 schools attend a conference. The host of this conference changes each year. They exchange what I feel are sensitive data.
But anyway, at the 2010 conference, the contingent from UCLA said they were eagerly waiting for the light rail to/from Santa Monica to open. That would enable a larger percentage of UCLA's students to commute. Also at this time, UCLA was "getting with the program," and converting double rooms to triple occupancy. So you are probably correct, in that no "new" housing buildings were added.
At that time, I did visit my alma mater, UC Santa Cruz. Here at Stevenson College, spotting kids on laptops felt strange. When I was a student, the campus was in its initial phase of dial-up. CPUs and laptops cost more than my then-dream speaker, the Thiel CS1.2. And yes, I was crestfallen, that rooms which had been, for decades, double occupancy, were now triples. Each room has a bunk on one side, and a loft bed on the other.
Like many of my friends, my wife went to UC Berkeley. Then and is now, only freshmen were guaranteed housing. After that, everyone is on her own. My wife hated commuting to campus. My wife argued that, by commuting, she didn't get the full Cal experience. Moreover, your health and sleep patterns are affected.
My last two years at UCSC, I lived in the Crown-Merrill apartments. But most of my friends lived off-campus. That's why they would stop over, between classes; or just bring an overnight bag, and crash, especially if they had an early morning class the next day.
During my years at UCSC, the student body was 52/48 female/male. It was close enough to 50/50, but you did notice that there were slightly more girls than boys. I do not know about UCLA, but I've been told that U.S. universities are now 58/42 female/male.
The Grateful Dead archives are held in a small room at UCSC's McHenry Library. During the 1989-90 school year, my roommate Josh, without telling me, would not come home on a weeknight. I was worried. And then he'd come back the next day (or evening), reeking of marijuana. I asked where he was, and he matter-of-factly shrugged that he had gone to a Grateful Dead concert. I asked why he didn't ask me, and he answered, "Since you're clean, I didn't think you'd be interested."
Your wife is 100% correct. I was lucky at one point and got into the UCLA dorms. It was a world of difference in life and education. On campus living, at least for the first two years is critical, and I won't budge from that opinion. I understand CC and commuting is necessary for some, but mine are fortunate they don't have to suffer through it. As long as they listen to me, which is not guaranteed!
When I was in college, I had just a handful of friends and relatives who were going to UCLA. In the 2000s, that number would increase, especially when you throw in coworkers' kids.During my last two years at UCSC, I did have a UCLA friend, Connie, come up, and spend the weekend with me. Her friend/roommate had a boyfriend at UCSC, so Connie accompanied her on the trip. My housemates paid rapt attention to Connie, wanted to know more about UCLA.
I could be wrong, but there was a Greyhound station on or close to the UCLA campus. That may have been the least expensive, but slowest, means of getting back to the Bay Area.
I thought that there was a bus, which went from UCLA to some Amtrak station. That was another way, to get back to the Bay.
But most just flew.
During my last two years at UCSC, my friend Pauline had a car. She was a nervous new/inexperienced driver. Her family lived in San Jose, and she was always apprehensive, about driving through Highway 17. Initially, with Pauline as the driver, we would explore local Santa Cruz, San Mateo, and Monterey coastlines. And then, as Pauline became more comfortable with the car, we would visit friends at not just Bay Area colleges, but at UC Davis, Sac State, Cal Poly SLO, and UCSB. We never did make it to UCLA.
When I stepped foot on other campuses, such as UCLA, I tried to project how well/poorly I'd do, had I attended that university.
In the 2000s, my wife had colleagues at an office in El Segundo. So the latter would take her and me around, including to UCLA.
My first two years at UCSC were in dorms. While going through that I had a love/hate relationship with dormmies. But over time, all those differences shaped me as a person, and then as an audiophile and professional.
I came back from the March 1993 Stereophile Show on a high. But then we had to prepare for that quarter's finals. My study buddy and Managerial Econ partner, Sachiko, was wrapping up our project on Odwalla. The look on her face said, "These are some of the best times of our lives, but they are coming to an end (both she and I graduated that spring), and we may never live like this again."
Regardless of which path(s) your daughter takes, because you are a wonderful parent, she will do well.
Edits: 01/05/25 01/05/25
Hey, thanks for that last comment. We've tried our best, and she's turned out pretty well, intelligent, confident (after a long struggle) and with more common sense than most of her gen. She's going to start her college life off in a much better position than either my wife or I did, no money worries, housing taken care of for at least 2 years wherever she goes, able to FOCUS on college life, rather than on commutes, or jobs, or health worries. Our goal for both of daughters was to get them off on the right feet to continue the legacy that we've been able to build without starting off with much (us that is). It's up to them now.
She loved UCLA when she visited, and frankly what's not to love, it's a beautiful campus and a wonderful place to go to school. Unfortunately it's just now too competitive for everyone but the few, 4.+++, 15XX, superstars to get in to. The only UC's she's applying to are UCSB (which was party central in my day) and UCSD (San Diego is her dream). She's got the one acceptance in her pocket, so the stress level is down a bit, but there are other schools she'd rather attend, though I absolutely LOVE Chicago. She was getting pelted with literature and emails from the University of Chicago, now that would have been my dream school.
in the early 90's, which was (of course) a physical manifestation of what was available to
trade on tape. Also worked at a record shop where that Bible lived and you could swap tapes
and have copies made for the standard price of a blank tape. We had a libary on hand of hundreds of shows.
Woah to the person that mis-filed any tapes!
Not a Dead fan (though even I like Cornell '77) , so much of the "work" was a PIA for myriad reasons.
My admiration though for the Deadication devoted to the entire process even up to that point was very high.
How the Deadhead recorded experience has grown and expanded since then is one of the greatest examples of fandom ever.
Possibly the greatest example, because it's about the music they created, not the "personalities" involved.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I had a friend that had over 100 Dead tapes, most were 1, occasionally 2 generations off the originals (he was proud of that). I may have gotten a couple back then, but I generally didn't bother. I did go to about 10-12 concerts between 77 and 81. I'm probably a bigger fan now than when they were around.
Jack
I still have my Dead tapes from the mid 70s. Many came from radio broadcasts. Audience tapes sucked.
Your interest may vary but the results will be same. (Byrd 2020)
I can't compete with the dead. (Buck W. 2010)
Cowards can't be heroes. (Byrd 2017)
Why don't catfish have kittens? (Moe Howard 1937)
The good ones, not the shitty ones.
Been into bootlegs for ages. SQ can vary, usually performance quality more than compensates.
Transmission releases can be fantastic but same rules apply (see link), and now
is the time for good quality releases of some golden era stuff.
Grateful Dead fans been trading live tapes for decades, Los Lobos fans too.
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~./gdead/setlists.html
A favorite transmission that caught on:
Board recordings are usually fantastic.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Those 3 CD sets look interesting.
Better if they are free. I have a Smithereens/Fabulous Thunderbirds Westwood One vinyl LP and at one time thought searching those out would be kind neat but looking into them is when I ran into the free concert download. There was a guy, a retired pilot I think, running ousterhout.net for years with a great collection of concert downloads. Kind of a goldmine of Americana. Last time I visited that site was down and I tried to look him up and found an obituary. Guitars101 has lots of more popular music (lots of crappy sound too), the Live Music Archives is probably were I started when I first got into downloading. Lots of Grateful Dead and related stuff there but deep dives can turn up some really nice finds.
Sometimes they come with album art. Sometimes I get to find something to use as album art and surprising how often it's actually around with a search. I update tag files and put them in my digital music library where they show up with my LPs and CDs in music players I use.
There's what to do with that next lifetime I applied for.
THIS is why I'm saving downloading until then.
Just the Lobos material could keep me busy until I finish breast feeding!
Not that I'd be in any hurry...
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
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