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In Reply to: RE: donnas dual disc gold metal dvd audio posted by Ben Van Dyk on January 19, 2009 at 19:17:41
...you seem to have difficulty reading what I wrote.
Follow Ups:
you become a DualDisc convert.
Perhaps you're right. After all, incoherent babbling always did seem to be the preferred communication method of the DualDisc apologists. Where are they now? Did all the early acolytes kill themselves in despair? One can only hope :-)
That echo "dead disc, very dead disc LOL........." was truly apt for the DualDisc crowd.
...you should surf over to the official DualDisc website at www.dualdisc.com and see what the DualDisc Consortium thinks of their creation these days. I guarantee it will be enlightening!
1. Find a friend (but not a good friend) who has the same DVD-Audio player as you do.
2. Take all of your DualDiscs to his house for a listening session.
3. Repeat until you no longer have any friends.
Prehistoric 4-Channel Lizard
At least one of my crusades worked! Ben never has forgiven me for putting all of DualDisc negatives on my old website highrezstereo.com
Guess what both of my old websites have been archived by VinylFanatics.com?
Here is my old DualDisc section:
WARNING!
DualDisc is not recommended by anyone including DualDisc's biggest supporter Sony!
There will be no DualDiscs reviewed or listed for sale at Hi Rez Stereo.com as I will not recommend a recording that could damage your equipment.
My advise is to avoid DualDiscs at all costs, you will save your equipment and your wits. Play it safe and play only 1.2mm discs such as CDs, HDCDs, SACDs, DVD-Audios and DVD-Videos. You'll be glad you did.
The main parameters of the CD (taken from the September 1983 issue of the compact disc specification) are as follows: Scanning velocity: 1.2–1.4 m/s (constant linear velocity) - Equivalent to about 500 rpm at the inside of the disc, or about 200 rpm at the outside edge.
Track pitch: 1.6 μm.
Disc diameter 120 mm.
Disc thickness: 1.2 mm.
Inner radius program area: 25 mm.
Outer radius program area: 58 mm.
DVDs use a substrate that is 0.6 mm thick, compared to 1.2 mm used in CDs. A 0.6 mm substrate is not physically strong enough, and so it is necessary to bond two 0.6 mm substrates together to form a 1.2 mm substrate. This adds a bonding step in addition to the steps that are required to form the 1.2 mm substrate used in CD media.
Dual Disc Manufacturer warnings: A number of electronics companies such as Lexicon, Marantz, Mark Levinson, Onkyo, Panasonic, Pioneer, Denon, JVC, Linn Products, Meridian, Philips, Toshiba and (ironically) Sony have issued statements warning consumers about possible problems with playing DualDisc titles on their equipment. These warnings range in severity from DualDiscs just not working with the equipment to actual damage to the disc and/or equipment.
Linn Products Comments on Dual Disc
Linn Products is a well known maker of audiophile speakers, amps, processors and disc players. The notice from Linn about Dual Disc releases appears under the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) section of their web site. Their view of using Dual Discs with their optical disc players is noted as follows:
Q. DualDisc format - is it a supported format for Linn disc players / audio servers?
A. No - DualDisc is not supported. DualDisc is a disc format with DVD content on one side and ‘CD’ on the other (see
http://www.dualdisc.com for details).
The DVD side comprises DVD-Video and/or DVD-Audio content. The ‘CD’ side is designed to play on CD players but is not in fact a CD as it is not compliant with the Compact Disc Digital Audio Specification (the industry 'Red Book' CD Standard). These discs are also thicker than standard CDs or DVDs.
As these discs are not compliant with current industry standard, Linn cannot guarantee that they will play on our range
of disc players and audio servers.
Nor can we guarantee that the thickness of DualDiscs will not cause problems for these Linn products – possibly damage to the product and/or the disc – if played.
Any damage resulting from the playing of DualDiscs will not be covered by the Linn warranty, so using these discs with a Linn disc player or audio server is entirely at the user’s risk.
Combination disc formats
The SACD/CD Hybrid is read from the same side: CD layer on bottom (from non-label read side) and SACD layer on top. Thus the laser shines through the translucent SACD layer at a different and angle and thickness to read the CD layer at the 1.2mm CDs require. Total disc thickness is 1.2mm.
The DualDisc and DVD Plus is 2 sided so the DVD Side is .6mm and the CD side is .9mm thus the laser hits are wrong angle as CD specs require 1.2mm and very excessive error correction is needed to play the CD side. Total thickness is 1.5mm.
Disc Format Thickness
All DVDs contain two .6mm substrates. On a single sided DVD only one side contains data, the other side is blank. All DVDs whither 1 or 2 layers or 1 or 2 sided DVDs are 1.2mm.
All CDs are 1.2mm
All SACDs are 1.2mm
However DualDisc is 1.5 - 1.6mm.
All DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, SACD and CD equipment is designed to play 1.2mm discs and 1.2mm discs only, they have a tolerance of -.1mm +.3mm due to irregularities and slightly defective discs. Because of this tolerance it is physically possible to play DualDiscs but the equipment was not designed to be misused this way.
At 1.5mm a DualDisc is at the maximum allowable tolerance and if the disc goes over even a fraction of 1.5mm the spindle will break, as there is no more room. No product in the history of mankind has ever been designed to work at the maximum allowable tolerance and some DualDiscs and DVD Plus are actually thicker than 1.5mm.
Upcoming Equipment Designed for Dual Disc Playback
The good news on the horizon for the Dual Disc format is we are just now beginning to see products being designed from the ground up with Dual Disc playback in mind. The first such Dual Disc compatible product is the recently announced PlayStation 3 from Sony which is slated for release in Summer 2006. That unit will play both the DVD and Audio sides of Dual Discs and will handle both PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS encoded Dual Disc content.
The PlayStation 3 does not include support for DVD-A content on Dual Discs, but I suspect we will see future player announcements with that capability as well later this year or sometime in 2006.
Happy listening,
Teresa
the cd side is messed up not the dvd side.I would of stopped collecting them if it would damage my players.for years I never posted because I wanted to collect the discs first.I really dont like posting.your posting about dualdisc is a pos not neg.I own 1 cheap dvd player,I did this on purpose for dual disc.If it breaks ill buy another one.some dualdisc I have are ac/dc shakira,arrowsmith live in vegas,B.spears,judas priest ect.all of the music in this format I like a lot.it was worth spending $50.00 for a used panasonic dvd audio player.
I am truly surprised that a forum for DualDisc still exists.
Edits: 01/19/09
Makes sense!
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