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In Reply to: RE: Inmate who has one posted by Mick Wolfe on May 13, 2024 at 18:38:19
I've heard good things about the Ares II. It's a whole other category, since it costs almost three times the cost of the J2S the way I would configure it.
What about the soundstage? I'm a soundstage freak. Love 'em wide and deep.
Thanks for your comments.
Follow Ups:
As I've said, a fully tricked out J2/S is going to come in over $700 vs the AresII at around $1K. So not 3X the difference. Yes, the Ares II would be roughly 3X the cost of the original J2 with the AKM 4493 chip. That said and to be clear, I found the original Ares (not the II version) to be superior to the J2. The J2/S is a different animal however.
In regard to soundstage/depth. That's something you'd have to audition in your system to determine. Personally, that's something I don't prioritize in my set-ups.
You're right about a fully loaded J2S but my needs make the cost about $550, not including tax and shipping. So the price difference is greater with what I would get.
The consensus seems to be that the 4499 chip totally transforms the J2 into the J2/S. From what I've heard, I wouldn't consider just the plain J2.
I'll have to keep an eye out for the original Ares. The version II seems well regarded but not much of a bargain compared to a number of DACs at a much lower price, including the BitFrost and the J2/S.
Thanks for the information.
My recommendation is to go with the J2S/4499 w/aluminum case and standard opamps ($430).
When funds allow, purchase the Sparkos 2590 Pro opamp & adapter direct from Sparkos ($126) ($107 w/15% disc).The J2S/4499 version significantly improves imaging and dimensionality.
The Sparkos 2590 Pro further expands its performance in virtually every sonic and musical criteria and well worth consideration.
fwiw, I own a J2/4493 w/50 w linear psu and the J2S/4499 w/50 R-core linear psu and have used and tested it in all 3 opamp configurations (OPA1656, Sparkos 3602, & Sparkos 2590Pro)
Edits: 05/17/24 05/17/24
Thanks for the advice. It looks like a choice at this point between the Geshelli J2S 4499 w/Sparkos and the SMSL D300, which attracts me because so many people have remarked on its natural sound. I never thought I'd seriously consider SMSL gear for my system, but good sound is good sound, should that prove to be the case.
of all the online reviews I've seen, these two, taken together, best describe the qualities of the J2S/4499 when coupled with the Sparkos 3602 opamp. The Sparkos Pro ups the ante further to a small but significant degree, esp in harmonic timbre, stage size, solidity and depth.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGWUe8lwgxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z37gqd-vGsA
Edits: 05/17/24 05/17/24
I'll take a look at the reviews. Thanks.
The Sparkos Pro isn't listed as an option when ordering the J2S, or is that another name for the Sparkos SS3602? Burson has the V7 Vivid Pro, which is an option.
I only need to upgrade on the RCAs, since I won't use the balanced output.
The Sparkos Pro is not listed as an option at Gishelli for the J2S.It can be
purchased direct from Sparkos Labs.
It is a premium device intended for professional use (mixing boards,etc) and is physically much larger than the 3602. Its size will only allow it to fit in the RCA/single ended output of the J2 and a tight fit ideally used with a socket riser.Here's what you'd need:
1ea)"Pro to dual dip 8 adapter"@ $126.00
($107.oo if you opt into his mailing list)
1ea)"Dip socket riser"@ $2.oo
Edits: 05/22/24 05/22/24 05/22/24
Thanks for the pictures and the links, though I still have a couple of questions.Your recommendation for adding the SS2590 is intriguing, and may push the Geshelli past the SMSL D300 regarding which one to try first. At the Sparkos website, however, the option is for two SS2590 with the adapter, not just one. The RCA option for the J2S only requires one op amp. What am I missing?
Even with the added cost of the SS2590, given that no upgrade on the balanced op amps is needed, the J2S would be only about $550, definitely a bargain in my book in view of the praise it's garnered.
Someone compared the V7 with the SS2590 and said it was a toss-up. Have you seen that? https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-geshelli-j2s-with-burson-v7-vivid-op-amps.972739/
The V7s would increase the cost to about $600, and most have preferred the Sparkos op amps anyway.
Thanks again for the excellent reply.
Edits: 05/22/24
The basic 2590 pro is a mono/single channel device. The adapter stacks two 2590's, one atop the other and links them into the appropriate 8 pin socket configuration for the Gishelli's coax output.I've read the thread you linked, however I've yet to hear the Burson V7's myself so can't comment from experience but it appears to be a viable option/alternative, being musical preference and system dependant.
Edits: 05/23/24
You're welcome. When cutting corners, I could see eliminating a few items, but don't overlook the Sparkos op amps unless they're already included in your estimate. An upgraded outboard power supply should also be on your wish list. These two items will definitely give you an uptick in performance.
The Sparkos are a requirement and part of the price. Since balanced isn't needed, that saves almost $200.
The website says that if a linear power supply is used, the warranty is void. Is there an outboard supply that won't void the warranty?
The website says that if a linear power supply is used, the warranty is void.
The manual does, however, state a generalized caution about potential damage from not providing proper voltage given the common connector used.
I just use the $70 iFi wall wart.(Amazon) I've used a pricier Swagman LPS in the past, but haven't used it in awhile. However, your best bet is call Sherri at Geshelli. At one time she had a list of power supplies they recommended. I don't remember LPS's being off limits, but maybe something has changed.
A great resource is a thread by jjss49
on Agon. He has had and used DACS across a broad price range.
Title of thread is
Dacs that I have had in my system - a listing
on the Digital forum. Sorry not sure how to add a link.
Yes, it's a good read. If nothing else you have to admire the guy for responding to virtually everyone who asked a follow up question. No worries, easily found with Google search typing in "jjss49 DAC's I've used across a broad price range."
Yes, jjss49 has always been very good sharing his vast audiophile knowledge.
Guess Im old school. Didnt know Moniker names could be web searched. Ive always had trouble trying to refind topics on forums, lol.
Thanks for the tip.
You're welcome. Yes, type in the subject matter along with jjss49 as I've noted.
To my ears the Denafrips Ares II was warm and smooth in the mids but lacked dynamic punch and was short on detail. It was a bit congested too on more complex music. Super nice though on simple female vocals and the like. I sold mine last year.
I still own my long time favorite PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC. It's probably about 8 years old now.
My SMSL D400EX DAC lower right
In recent model DACs I prefer the SMSL D400EX USB DAC which is what I have been running since May 2023. However, I still own and love my old PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC. There's another SMSL that folks seem to like for its heftier bass punch but I don't recall the model.
IMHO there are dozens of fantastic sounding modern DACs in the $1000 range if you're willing explore beyond the old guard audiophile brands and megabuck recommended components you see in the stereo rags.
But on a cautionary note as someone else mentioned, many YouTubers are looking for clicks and eyeballs with their overly sensational claims. Over time you'll learn who on YouTube to trust a little more. But in the end it is up to your ears and your preferences.
P.S. I -believe- it is Inmate Todd Krieger who owns a Geshelli DAC (I could be wrong) but he has other higher-end DACs. Hopefully he will chime in.
Edits: 05/13/24 05/13/24 05/13/24
Abe, in regard to SMSL. A friend whose had multiple DAC's in the sub $2K range swears by the SMSL VMV D2R. He says it's the best DAC he's owned and an absolute steal at the $1K mark.
I am very happy with the Smsl VMV D2r and d300, which I use in different systems. The VMV D2r sounds noticeably better as you would expect from the price difference. The more resolving the system, the more the differences between them are apparent.
I'm loving my $850 SMSL D400EX DAC but now that you've mentioned it I believe it is the SMSL VMV D2R that has slightly more bass authority and punch.
Edits: 05/19/24
To echo what you've said earlier. As time marches on, we'll continue to find a multitude of DAC's priced at or below $1K that a quite musically satisfying. This is the DAC price point I explore almost exclusively now. I have X number of exhausts leaving the manifold of my savings/checking accounts and audio is just one of them.
Quality audio sound is very expensive only if you've learned over the years that it has to be. I had to unlearn ;-)
Agreed 100%. Despite the naysayers, there is a point of diminishing return in every category.
Agree and that point of diminishing return occurs much sooner on the curve than it did before.
Other folks mentioned similar traits for the Ares II, which has steered me away from it.The PS Audio DACs are well regarded by many. If a good used one comes up, it will be given consideration.
Because used gear can't be auditioned, I have been looking more at new DACs. I actually prefer finding audio equipment that is not one of the "name brands". More offbeat has a lot of appeal. Much of my gear consists of brands that are not as well known.
I'll take a look at the SMSL. The link is appreciated.
I like gear that is as neutral as possible. Are you familiar with any DACs that seem to be more neutral?
Your pictures show a Schiit Vigar. I'm giving some serious thought about trying one. I auditioned it at the Schiit showroom but had a difficult time evaluating it. Too many variables. What do you think of it?
Thanks for the many details and the great pictures.
Edits: 05/14/24
I consider the SMSL D400EX DAC to be somewhat 'neutral' w/o being lean, thin, clinical, analytical, cold, etc. etc. Some so-called 'neutral' sounding gear can lean in that direction. To my ears the SMSL D400EX has a slight bit of heft and robustness to it in the mids and lower but not enough to call attention to it. The PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC [discontinued] is a bit more warm and robust in comparison but not by a lot. [And unlike the warmish sounding Aeries II these DACs don't choke on transparency, detail, and dynamic punch]
It's all about personal preference and how the DAC sounds in combination with your other electronics and speakers. For my ears I will always go for a bit of warmth and a full bodied sound vs 'neutral' if 'neutral' means settling for any of the characteristics I mentioned earlier.
For the money I think the Vidar is a great buy but it seems a bit strong in the lower mids and bass - which might be what they're striving for as that sort of sound probably mates well with similarly priced high value speakers that might lack low end bass response. I'm just guessing at that part. In my setup the Vidar sounds good but a little over emphasized in the lower freqs. My Vidar is the original with no power switch on the front. The latest ones have a front-mounted power switch.
Your remarks are really helpful.
You seem positive enough about the Vidar that it might be worth giving it a try in the future. Schiit gives 15 days to try. There is a restocking fee, I think, but it might be worth it.
What is the soundstage like? I'm a soundstage freak - need it wide and deep.
Thanks.
It's been quite a while since I've listened to it so I can't remember how the Vidar soundstage stacks up. I can say that tube amps seem to soundstage very well but they have their own trade-offs. I still have my Rogue Cronus Magnum tube integrated when I want to change it up for a while.
Edits: 05/17/24
Another consideration in regard to a solid state amp is the Galion TS A75. Unfortunately, roughly twice the price of the Vidar though. Possibly in a different league sonically IF you trust the numerous YouTube reviews.
Oops, I meant to reply to OP, but its about four posts back.
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