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In Reply to: RE: inter sample overs posted by ltman on January 17, 2024 at 15:12:58
Roon has automatic headroom management and volume leveling options that can be enabled. There are manual adjustments that can be made in the software too. I would imagine that some other quality software like HQplayer and possibly Audirana can manage intersample overs too.Roon DSP headroom management and volume leveling
I don't sweat intersample overs. Roon handles it. If they happen, I never hear their effect.
From the Roon website:
Because of "inter-sample overs"
"It's possible for a totally "in-range" piece of source material to have "out-of-range" samples after upsampling. The very simple explanation is: when the interpolator "connects the dots" to form a signal at a higher sampling rate, sometimes the new "dots" fall out of range - causing clipping.This is essentially a defect introduced in the mastering process and is not a problem with the upsampler. Unfortunately, most software silently ignores these defects and provides no means to track or manage them. "
Some DACs from Benchmark and others are able to properly handle intersample overs through DSP done within the DAC but separate from the DAC chip itself.
Edits: 01/18/24 01/18/24 01/19/24Follow Ups:
IMHO every playback software having volume control can handle this.
In case of recordings with insufficient headroom, a reconstruction filter will generate values in excess of the equivalent voltage representing 0 dBFS.
The only thing you have to do is lower the digital volume with 4 dB.
Just like they lower the volume with -6 dB in case of DSD to avoid overloading the converter.
The Well Tempered Computer
"IMHO every playback software having volume control can handle this. The only thing you have to do is lower the digital volume with 4 dB."
I'll have to experiment with that.
Roon (as with most players) can be setup for FIXED/Max output level -OR- software control over output level with a volume control slider or similar. I have read that using software control in players (and the volume control on some DACs) can limit the resolution (by truncating bits) so I always run my software Volume Control and DAC at FIXED/Max output and let my preamp handle the Volume level in the analog domain.
I have "Volume Leveling * " and "Headroom Management" enabled in Roon and I know of several 'hot tracks' that will light up Roon's clipping indicator without one of these Roon features enabled. I'll disable them and play those tracks then try software volume control to lower the level and see what happens.
Depends.
The loudest a DAC could play is called 0 dBFS, say all bits are on.
If we lower the volume digital we 'shift' to the LSB.
If we play 16 bit program material on a 16 bit DAC and lower with 48 dB, we have only half of the number of bits left.
MSB LSB
1111111111111111
0000000011111111
Yes, we do loose resolution and with each bit chopped off, 6 dB of the dynamic range.
If we play 16 bits program material on a 24 bit DAC and lower with 8 bits (48 dB) we still have all 16 bits in the register of the DAC.
111111111111111100000000
000000001111111111111111
IMHO with modern 24 or 32 bit DACs, digital volume control is not an issue, we don't lose resolution.
The fundamental difference between analog and digital VC is that analog reduces signal and noise so the SNR is constant. Digital VC can only alter the samples so by design the SNR will become worse.
However with modern DACs having a noise floor as low as -140 dBFS, even modern ultra silent power amps can't resolve this so should we worry.
Digital volume control doesn't have imbalance nor will it crackle.
The Well Tempered Computer
"If we play 16 bit program material on a 24 bit DAC and lower with 8 bits (48 dB) we still have all 16 bits in the register of the DAC."So you are basically fine in that you still maintain 16 bit resolution and dynamic range.
But if you paid for and play 24 bit material and lose 8 bits (via the digital Volume Control) you're at 16 bits and "didn't get your money's worth" out of your 24 bit music purchase or stream.
You lose the resolution and dynamic range that 24 bit provides but the question becomes, does it matter? Can you hear it? It is a moot question if you refrain from using the Digital Volume control and maintain all 24 bits and control the volume in the analog domain with a preamp.
Related but not about digital resolution as discussed above:
I have used Digital Volume controls on some DACs. Some are better than others but unrelated to the number D/A bits. It seems that many DACs on their own (IMHO) lack the robust, dynamic, and full bodied sound that can be achieved with a good outboard preamp. Some DACs will sound slightly less 'alive' or 'dynamic' and I attribute that to their analog output section and limited drive vs a good preamp.
Edits: 01/23/24 01/23/24 01/23/24
This depends on where the volume control is placed in the circuit and the S/N ratio of the components that are placed after the volume control. For example, if using an integrated tube amp (or separates) with a so-so or poor S/N ratio for the outputs (which are placed after the volume control in the circuit), turning down the volume knob does not reduce the power amp's S/N ratio. However, if the poor S/N ratio is due to the preamp circuitry that precedes the volume pot, then turning down the volume does reduce the S/N ratio along with the signal. Note there are some analog preamps that still have circuity placed after the volume control -- a buffer circuit, for example.
So, a healthy measure of "it depends" when it comes to the subject line. The good news is that most equipment is so quiet these days than it is generally a non-issue.
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