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In Reply to: RE: dCS Scarlatti vs. Modern Dacs up to $10k. posted by howard on December 14, 2023 at 01:06:05
Have heard a few dCS offerings over the years and, IMNSH opinion, for the same money as a Denafrips Terminator (which I have) or a Holo May (which I'd likely take over the Terminator) it's all about which kind of sound you prefer.
Tubes vs. transistors?
Vinyl vs. digital?
Relaxed, listen for hours sound vs. edge-of-the-seat, impress-your-friends-in-a-1o-minute-demo presentation?
I'd be happy with anything in the dCS lineup over the last decade or so. I have a dCS Network Bridge as a streaming endpoint and it's a great 'piece of kit' as those Brits say.
The older dCS 'ring dacs' are going to be a little bit more laid back than perhaps some of the more modern $5k range offerings from Asia or $10K offerings from the 'West'.
But keep in mind that DACs are getting better,
I'm not one to pay big bucks for in-your-face detail (I'm a vinyl, toobs and horns kind of guy) so I'd likely be content with the Scarlatti.
Holo May too.
First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass
Follow Ups:
* If a DAC is laid-back what does that mean to most audiophiles ?
* If a DAC is in-your-face does that mean it is not laid-back ?
* Does a DAC have to be one or the other - laid-back or in-your-face ?
Are likely just the two extremes. Doze off to sleep even at fairly decent listening levels? Laid back!
Edge of your seat with mouth agape? Well, fun for a while but not how I listen to music.
The problem is audiophile shows. Gear that does 'detail' gets the nod in short term listening sessions (and with many in the audiophile press that do show write-ups) and so that's what gets built and taken to shows. Same with booming one-note subs and LOUD volume levels.
If the guy in the corner seat refuses to leave after being in the room for an hour or more, that's the system Ivan wants 'cause I'm that guy in the corner.
"Ivan, we have to pack up." "Show's over." "Please don't cry, we gotta go."
Very few rooms at audio shows are worth staying in for hours on end.
Managed to acquire some of that type of gear over the years. Took a couple decades.
Haven't found the DAC yet though. HOLO May might be a candidate. Audio-GD (PCM-1704 version) is awfully close. Maybe sold the best DAC I have owned when I bought the Terminator as the Terminator had all the controls on the front while filters, etc. on the Audio-GD Master 7 was controlled by jumpers and firmware upgrades could only be done with a separate box (not included) and a Windows PC plus fluency in Chinese. At the time they sounded much alike but...
After hours of listening?
First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass
If you like BB PCM 1704, then get an Ayon Skylla 2 DAC, Ayon CD5s or Ayon S5 streamer and be done with worrying about digital. All can be found used for reasonable money.
Was gifted it recently. I heard denaphris terminator dac at my friends setup. It replaced Weiss 202 dac which I think was better less "mechanical"
Heard some Fikus lampizator dacs in unfamiliar setups they were all OK but I wouldn't spend 1/10th of asking price on them because they are coming from low wage /low tech country and are directed to "American idiots exclusively"
Edits: 12/26/23 12/26/23
Gear that does 'detail' gets the nod in short term listening sessions (and with many in the audiophile press that do show write-ups) and so that's what gets built and taken to shows.
I'm not a fan of an overly etched or forward presentation either. That's not what I hear in live environments.
you would have appreciated what Dave Slagle has done with his built-in bi-amping of his Quad 57's.
(link below)
Like the author of this piece, I've long loved and lusted for a pair of Quad 57s, even had them in my apartment for a couple weeks in the late 70's as a friend who owned them was moving and needed a safe place to stash them until he could safely transfer them into his new spot.
But these are of another dimension. Likely what should have been had market forces prevented it.
Story goes that a guy called up Slagle and ask him to custom wind a replacement step-up transformer for a blown one in a quad panel. Think about it. A tube amp's output transformer is a step-DOWN transformer which, if hooked up to a QUAD 57 sends the signal to the QUAD's step-UP transformer to supply the voltage required to drive the panels. How does that make sense?
So, Dave solves this by building two tube amps (one for treble one for mid base) and two 'custom wound' output transformers matched to the impedance of the PP amps and the panels, and attaches time to the back of the panels. Crossover is done at line level before the signals are sent to the respective output stages.
Everything played on this system sounded like it was live and being performed 'in the room. I wasn't allowed in the sweet spot for long and was soon relegated to the corner where I remained until they had to shut down for the day and, as Dave is a friend, security was not called.
OK, credit where credit is due. If I had a few $million$ to spend on audio, Win Tinnon's scratch build, slate, rim drive table with a Schroeder arm and custom step-ups for the MC cartridge, etc. would be sending the music to those custom Quad ESL-57s.
And yes, I have that Julie London LP pictured in the link below and it sounds pretty good on my system, but nothing like the one Dave and Win put together at RMAF back in 2015.
First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass
So, Dave solves this by building two tube amps (one for treble one for mid base) and two 'custom wound' output transformers matched to the impedance of the PP amps and the panels, and attaches time to the back of the panels.
That's essentially what Jim Strickland did with the Acoustat X using a servo charge amp capable of 3 kV - which was my first electrostat a year later in '77.
Great concept but unable to generate 12 kV like my Sound Labs. Quad 57s are certainly nice, but I still prefer a larger single diaphragm full range dipolar line array driven by large tube amps.
Everything played on this system sounded like it was live and being performed 'in the room.
Come join me some time! :)
I think you're right in that in-your-face and laid-back describe two extremes but I see laid-back in more reviews than in-your-face probably because the former phrase doesn't seem so bad.To me laid-back is code phrase for being polite, dynamically challenged, and possibly veiled. Similarly when a reviewer describes digital gear as being analog-like that raises enough suspicion for me to hang on to my wallet.
In my experience these were either laid back or analog-like: CJ gear, Pass Aleph 3, Wavelength DAC, Luxman DA-06 DAC. I didn't care for any of these. The ML 383 integrated amp was so laid-back that it did injustice to even sleepy time background elevator music. But it was a pretty piece of audio jewelry ;-)
Edits: 12/17/23 12/17/23 12/17/23
Laid back tends to be more of a middle row (or farther) seats in the audience, and a forward sound is closer to front row seats. At least that's one way to look at it. I personally prefer laid back since I find forward sound to be tiresome in the long run. This doesn't get mentioned much anymore by reviewers, and many seem to prefer a forward/in your face sound.
Jack
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