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In Reply to: RE: New DAC suggestions posted by AbeCollins on October 24, 2023 at 20:59:18
The SMSL D400EX looks like an excellent DAC. I used to love AKM DAC chips. I own a FiiO M15 with dual AK4499EQ DAC chips and it sounds exceptional. However, my newer FiiO M17 uses dual ES9038PRO DAC chips and it sounds just a little bit better. The Topping DAC you recommended also uses the ES9038PRO DAC chip. What do you think of the Topping compared to the SMSL?
Thanks!
John Elison
Follow Ups:
I'm not convinced that ESS vs AKM really matters. I've owned different DACs that incorporate each brand of chip and like anything else some sound great and others not so much - but it wasn't due to the chip IMHO.My Topping was the original D90 before the AKM chip plant in Japan burned down so it used AKM [the newer D90SE uses ESS]. Same story for my RME ADI-2 DAC FS. It too used AKM but the most recent ones are now using ESS. On the other hand my long time benchmark is the discontinued 7 year old PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC which I still own and love. The PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC uses much older ESS chip technology.
To answer your question, between the Topping D90 (AKM) and my SMSL D400EX (AKM) I definitely prefer the SMSL.... it seems slightly smoother but not artificially so.
But in my audio rack today I have the SMSL D400EX (AKM) side by side with my old PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC (ESS) and it's a toss up. They are both outstanding with the PS Audio sounding ever so slightly richer and more robust while the SMSL D400EX is perhaps slightly 'faster' on transient attack and with more treble extension. Sound stage is about the same.
IMHO many modern DACs sound excellent and it comes down to very slight differences and personal preference. If you hear a huge difference in a DAC it's probably because it leans heavily in a direction that aligns with your preference...... which could be heavily in the opposite direction of my preference or yours ;-)
As for R2R, I've had two R2R DACs in my setup. I didn't care for either one of them. But that's just me and my personal preference at play.
Edits: 10/25/23 10/25/23 10/25/23
Wow! Thanks for the detailed response. I'd like to hear that SMSL DAC sometime. However, I'm very happy with my FiiO M17 DAP containing dual ES9038PRO DAC chips.
Thanks again!
John Elison
As you know, I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact that the analog stage and supporting circuitry in the DAC are just as important (maybe more so) than whether the DAC chip is ESS, AKM, or other.
I agree! I think you're right about the analog output stage being just as important or even more so than the DAC chip.
Thanks!
John Elison
My friend and I compared our two Ayon DACs, me with Skylla 2 and him with the Stratos. Mine has BB PCM1704K DAC chips and his has the ESS Sabre chips (not sure which version). Digital filtration is of course different as would be necessitated from the different DAC architecture.
However, the power supply and output stage of the two DACs is IDENTICAL. Same tube rectification, same output tubes in same design even same output stage coupling caps.
The result? More similar than different. The caveat was that if the Stratos had the upsampling engaged it sounded very different. Much leaner and airy but lacking the tone and substance that makes the Skylla 2 great.
Turning off the upsampling on the Stratos led to a convergence of the sound to the point that, upon first listen, it would be difficult to tell them apart. After a bit longer though that R2R vs. Sigma/Delta difference creeps in. Mainly it has to do with solidness of sound and the feeling of real live instruments vs. ethereal cutouts.
The take away is that the power supply and output stage have a huge effect on the overall sound but that even still the digital section left it's fingerprint on the sound.
I have been toying with changing to an Ayon CD-35II that has been highly lauded in European audio mags. My problem is that it is using the latest AKM chips and I am quite fond of the sound I get from my R2R chips. I am concerned that I will eventually hear that S/D sound and then dislike my digital...because I find that sound very unnatural.
I had a similar issue when I once had an Audio Aero Prima DAC, which was basically their Capitole 24/193 cd player without the transport. Initially listening was very postive, airy, transparent, reasonably dynamic and spacious. Later it sounded too smooth and low level dynamics suffered. It was airy but not realistic in upper energy instruments (cymbals for example). So, I sold it and went back to my R2R DACs with relief.
that is a great explanation and why I ended up with an R2R dac having had an upsampling dac, and a FPGA dac. More like music indeed.
Said another way, the R2R dac has me saying to myself just how good things sound.
Cut to razor sounding violins
Yeah, it was an interesting and enlightening comparison. It was also the first time I heard an ESS based DAC that I could listen to and enjoy...that is how important the output stage is. However, over time the differences shown through and I would still prefer the R2R sound.
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