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In Reply to: RE: New DAC in the house posted by John Elison on August 10, 2019 at 20:52:35
Didn't really pay attention to the Teac. I had Teac DAC a few years ago with the handles on the side, cant remember the model number. it was ok. For some reason I wanted to stay away from DACs with off the shelf chips.
navman
Follow Ups:
> Didn't really pay attention to the Teac.
Well, I fell in love with the sound of higher resolution DSD recordings such as Double DSD and Quad DSD. That's why I bought a Mytek Brooklyn Bridge. Then I discovered the Teac NT-505 took it one step further by supporting DSD512. Consequently, I now kind of wish I had a Teac instead of the Mytek. Both of them have MQA decoders, though, if you're interested in MQA.
Best regards,
John Elison
From what I gathered, The Mytek Dacs do not automatically turn on/off MQA filters. It has to be done manually. Now, I'm not certain how that effects the sound of non MQA files. I believe the filters have to be on to get full MQA unfolding (per Meridian requirements).
The Teac's and the Lumins for sure do automatic filter changing to whichever file type is played.
Dale Clark
www.arcpictures.com
I think you're right. I've never enabled MQA because I don't have any MQA files, but the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge manual states that when MQA is enabled, the custom MQA filter is fixed and none of the other PCM Filter Shape settings are available. Since I don't have any MQA files, I keep MQA disabled and I use the slow roll-off, minimum phase (SRMP) PCM filter shape.
I can hear a noticeable difference between the sound of PCM and DSD, and I really like DSD128 and DSD256 the best. I've never heard MQA, but I'm fascinated with the sound DSD, especially in the high frequencies. In my opinion both DSD128 and DSD256 sound even better than analog, although my DSD128 recordings of vinyl are quite nice, too.
Best regards,
John Elison
I was torn between the Mytek vs Chord. MQA interests me only because I do stream TIDAL MQA tracks. I settled for non MQA in the end.I love the DSD that I own I have quite a few DSD recordings and prefer them to PCM. I am intrigued by the M Scaler.....if it can improve what I have, the Chord my overtake my MSB Analog DAC as my preferred listening DAC.
As I type this Im listening to the original Sony DSD release of SRV's Tin Pan Alley and it is smooth, detailed and has fantastic dynamics. Just awesome.
navman
Edits: 08/11/19
Congrats on the new DAC! Having owned a Mytek, TEAC, Chord, PS Audio, and W4S, here were my observations:TEAC vs MYTEK = Totally different sound regardless of support for higher res, MQA, DSD or not.
I had the Mytek Stereo192 DSD DAC and to my ears the sound was very clean and transparent, excellent detail, some would also call it neutral. But it also lacked weight in the lower mids and midrange making it sound a little thin. It wasn't bright at all, just not very full-bodied. I've read comparative professional reviews that essentially said the same thing about other Mytek models in comparison to other DACs. Is this what "pro sound" is like? I suppose it has to be as neutral as possible (whatever that is) so there are NO colorations over multiple passes through a project. For me, I'm not looking for so called "neutral".
I had the TEAC UD-501 DSD DAC which was kind of the sonic opposite of the Mytek. The TEAC was definitely bass heavy with lots of body and fullness to the music. However, I found it lacking for transparency, detail, and top end. It's a good DAC but a little too much of a good thing if you like a full bodied sound. It was too full-bodied for me and gave up in other areas.
The little $400 Chord Mojo that I have sounds more balanced across the board and I prefer it over the TEAC or Mytek. In fact, the Chord Mojo sounds more like my other two DACs, the PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC and the Wyred4Sound DAC-2DSD. Both the PS Audio and W4S DACs are well balanced with just enough lower mids and midrange to make them sound "musical" and less "clinical" than the Mytek. The W4S is just a tad bit weightier or slightly more robust than the PS Audio w/o going overboard like the TEAC or being thin like the Mytek.
And I would expect that your preference may also come down to component matching to some extent. I would not use the Mytek in a system that is already neutral or lean sounding but it might fit well in a system that is very rich and robust. Similarly, the TEAC might do well in a system that is inherently thin or lean sounding.
I find the little Chord Mojo, PS Audio, and W4S to be "just right" in my setup.
If I had to choose ONE, my favorite is still the PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC. I put it right up there with the well respected Ayre QB9-DSD DAC, which I once owned. Neither of these support MQA and support just basic DSD.
IMHO, one DAC isn't going to sound better than another just BECAUSE it supports DSD or just BECAUSE it supports MQA. There are crappy sounding DACs out there that check these boxes, and others that sound wonderful that ignore MQA and DSD.
Edits: 08/12/19 08/12/19 08/12/19 08/12/19
+1 for the PS Audio NuWave DSD DAC, especially with Duster's recommended Monoprice Monolith USB cable.
Adam O
Thank you for that write up. Its a great post that is a reference for anyone shopping these various brands.
When I try to recollect the DACS Ive owned at some point these ones I remember for sure and were used for extended periods:
PS Direct Stream
Marantz NA11S1 (had two at one point)
MSB Analog DAC
Teac UD 501
Denafrips Ares
If I remember, the PS one was pretty decent till a firmware upgrade revealed that I had a build that was prone to an audible click through the speakers when the input sampling rate changed. While frustrating, it was after a A-B shoot out with the MSB that made me ditch it and Ive stuck with the MSB ever since. The PS sounded like Hi-Fi but didn't have that natural flow and coherence that MSB had which made the MSB more believable when listening to it.
I remember the Teac having drop outs on DSD playback in a secondary system and it was regulated to my computer and a mainly headphone setup. It worked especially well with a Schiit tube headamp and a regan usb regenerator.
The Marantz was a lovely product, reeked of quality, sounded very good but had a "house sound" which in the end didn't do it for me.
The Denafrips Ares was pretty good for the price. Lacked a wee bit of detail but was musical and I was tempted to go the terminator route.
But then I startyed exploring the possibilities of the Mytek, ifi and Chord products. Am very happy with the Chord. Very tempted by the M-Scaler and lust after a DAVE, which I would have to sell a kidney to obtain :)
navman
"The TEAC was definitely bass heavy with lots of body and fullness to the music. However, I found it lacking for transparency, detail, and top end."
Maybe this is why the Teac works in my System. I have 115db Oris Horns which have 2 way Compression Drivers. They are incredibly revealing and Transparent and Dynamic as Compression Drivers and Horns usually are. They cover the Music Spectrum Bewteen 270 Hz. - and 22Khz. I am not lacking in transparency or detail in the top end by a long shot!
The TEAC was a little too "rich" for my taste.
Not that I like ultra-detail but the others seemed a little better in that area in my setup.
It really does come down to how the individual components compliment (or offset) each other and the final outcome for personal preference.
Well, I like 'ultra-detail' and transparency and speed.... And that is what Horns give you... Maybe this is another reason that I find most DACs more alike than different.
I haven't gone too far down that road, but I'm thinking about USB DACs. Seriously, I don't feel abused on a system that just uses the Logitech Touch's analog outputs. I've got a Allo Boss RPi on my office system now and it's not bad, very good actually, but that old audiophile nervousa has got me wondering.
Can the RPi streamers be used with USB DACs? I'm also going to try my Tascam 3000 that I'm using as a vinyl recorder as a DAC from the Touch because it's there and I have an extra one, but that's coax and not asynchronous. The Tascam sure does a killer job as an A-to-D so it should be interesting as I can compare it directly to the Boss DAC, but doesn't answer the USB question.
-Rod
I would not use the Raspberry Pi 3 or 4 for USB directly through it without using a HAT that isolates it from the rest of the board (like a digione board). The Raspberry Pi 3's USB and ethernet share the same controller. This really did not have much of an effect on the USB so much as the ethernet speed. (Even with a nice gigabit connection, you were maxed out at about 300Mbps.) Now you can get true gigabit ethernet speeds. The USB on the Pi 4 now goes directly over the PCI express bus.
All of this set aside, the problem is and always has been electrical noise. There is really no isolation on this board at all. It's the reason why you'd want to use a really good HAT that can have it's power isolated from the mainboard. This usually requires seperate power going to the top board and the main board.
I would stay away from the Pi4 for now for a few reasons. First, (and probaly most relevant to everyone here) it's got a serious thermal throttling problem. (The CPU generates a lot more heat than previous versions. Since there is no active cooling on these, it hits the temperature limit quite easily and will throttle down the clock speed to compensate.) The second issue, they've discovered problems on the USB controller for the Pi 4 (mostly on the type C port, but the type C and type A ports are on the same VLI VL805 controller.) Raspberry foundation has acknowledged this design flaw and said they'll correct it in the next revision.
If you're dead set on USB through the PI, I believe Allo makes a USbridge (pretty sure that's what it's called) that should isolate it from the main board's noise, and since it uses the 40 pin connector it has a lane directly to the CPU. (I've never tried one of these personally so I can't say how well they sound in real world tests. I can say a Digione Signature HAT on top make an excellent streamer for me sending BNC over to my DAC.)
Do you see advantages on coax that I've got?
-Rod
Thanks. I'd been eyeing the Digione Signature.
-Rod
You can get sound out of RPi USB ports, but I believe it is noisy as it shares its 'bus' with other processes. I think the new RPi 4 board has corrected this problem. I would go for a DAC that also has Coax and Optical input
Thanks. I've got an old modded Perpetual Technologies P3A with a real power supply that I can hook up with anything except USB. It was my impression that the asynchronous re-clocking was the cat's meow and USB was that best at that.
I need to try that with one of my Touches to compare to the Boss. It seems like the Allo Digi would be the choice for an RPi to a DAC. Seriously, the Allo Boss sounds awfully good. Or maybe it just gets better after every beer.
-Rod
I use the Digione Board for my main system into my Teac DAC.. I take the Boss when I'm traveling or out to the back deck.I've also looked at the Digione Signature, but I think I'm going to wait until Allo comes up with a little neater solution to the two power supply thing. I think there is a lot of room for improvement.
Edits: 08/15/19
Thanks. I decided to just pull the trigger on the Digione Sig model with Allo's dual power supply. I'll be curious to A-B it with a couple DACs that I've got vs the Boss.
Will I be amazed?
-Rod
nt
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