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In Reply to: RE: Estelon Diamond Mk2 posted by Doug Schneider on December 02, 2024 at 17:35:23
Doug, I don't think there is anything wrong with JA's technique, it's just a different one. How do you accurately measure low frequency response when the actual response will be so dependent on the particular room? An anechoic response certainly is not what one will hear in their own room and I would imagine that the speaker designer would take into account reinforcement from the room in their low frequency design (hopefully). A flat anechoic response at low frequencies would likely give a bass-heavy response in room, depending on particular room characteristics. I'm not sure there is any absolute correct way to do this, what is important is consistency in order to make fair & useful comparisons.
Follow Ups:
I think the issue is that when part of the graph is "anechoic" and the other part isn't, it generates confusion insofar as what the character is really like.Doug
SoundStage!
Edits: 12/03/24
why not perform measurements in a really good controlled room?
Surely cheaper than buying time in an anechoic chamber and certainly more representative of a speaker's capabilities in the real world.
Because you'll get a different response in every room. When you're measuring in a room, it's the speaker and the room -- and rooms vary. In ideal anechoic conditions, it's the same every time -- and it's just the speaker.
Doug
SoundStage!
we get a uniformly useless response in terms of real world rooms.
Ummm, if that's what you think, then there's no use carrying this on. Suffice it to say there are valid reasons for trying to accurately measure the bass output of the speaker. If you don't believe that, so be it.
Doug
SoundStage!
in the real world as we experience it.
Theory is great until it isn't.
The theory in this case works, however.
Doug
SoundStage!
Tests in anechoic chambers don't work with dipoles as the back wave is part of the response.
Fails to represent real world scenarios like Harman's speaker "shuffler". I had a funny conversation with Sean Olive about that limitation. :)
Did anyone say they deal with dipoles properly? 99%+ of the speakers sold aren't dipoles.
Doug
SoundStage!
The theory in this case works, however.
No it doesn't with your unqualified boast.
Feel free to carrying on thinking that...
Doug
SoundStage!
You've already acknowledged the obvious limitation!
Have a good day.
Why measure low frequencies? Let the reviewer listen and tell us. Ah, that would be good only for his room. So let us assume that speakers of hundred thousand club have great musical low frequencies.
What about subwoofers?
Bill
Hi Bill, way back in Portland Maine,1970ish ,there were only 2 Hifi stores.One sold AR,Epicure'and Advent.As low as they would go bass wise the frequency line was flat in the lower register.They called it the New England sound because that's where they were manufactured.On the other side,or store were speakers like JBL and Cerwin Vega more popular with the rock and roll crowd because their lower range had a hump in the bass like I saw in the Estelon's frequency graph.Because of where they were made,California,they were in the West Coast sound.That's what I read. That popped into my mind when I opened up the Stereophile.That's why I wrote.I got a lesson in return. Thanks all...-.Mark Korda
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