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In Reply to: RE: Herb Reichart - 'an elderly gentleman possessing unclear auditory abilities' posted by 13th Duke of Wymbourne on April 09, 2023 at 10:02:18
And JA is planning to do a follow-up to look into the discrepancy between the poor measurements and Herb Reichert's ecstatic review.
I have elderly hearing, and nobody should rely on my opinions of anything reproducing sounds above 12K.
Follow Ups:
I skimmed Herb's subjective review linked in the Archimago blog piece. Based on your comments I read further on to the measurements section - ouch, they are bad. I originally skipped them because we get used to modern DACs having exemplary measurements.
We've seen performance like this before from Audio Note, IIRC, with a great subjective review. I am OK with poor objective performance being liked as I think it probable that some artifacts are preferable (and as someone who really enjoys vinyl I am under no illusions that it is objectively superior). In assessing whether this DAC is worth $10k we should ask whether the designer has deliberately built in imperfections, developed after much experimentation, to sound preferable or are the imperfections added due to incompetance?
i.e., "In assessing whether this DAC is worth $10k we should ask whether the designer has deliberately built in imperfections, developed after much experimentation, to sound preferable or are the imperfections added due to incompet[e]nce?"If the designer liked the way it sounded when he/she/they breadboarded it (or whatever folks do to test a design nowadays) and/or if a potential customer likes the sound at the price point -- does pathway matter?
We can call this "voicing a DAC" if we wish, and the route to the end is (arguably) irrelevant if the end is palatable to the intended market. ;)
On the other hand, there are folks like Nelson Pass who clearly, explicitly, and deliberately design some flavor into their products. NP earned his credentials to the best of my understanding and knows what he is doing -- I won't disagree that he's probably on ethica/professional "higher ground" than someone who shakes up a bag of parts, likes the result, and then sells it (or tries to) at a premium price!
all the best,
mrh
Edits: 04/09/23
Just to step back, I posted because I liked the turn of phrase Archimago used to describe the reviewer and was a little shocked that he would describe a 'name' reviewer in such a manner (though he is right - either Herb has cloth ears or if a DAC this bad can sound as good as a well executed DAC then, maybe, reviews don't really matter (IMO)).
I had not read the review (my subscription lapsed and I was too lazy to renew) but there is already a follow-up by JA-classic and, if I summarize correctly, he thinks it sounds OK so it is likely that poor objective performance is good enough for our ears. And Archimago himself made great points in the comments section so there is little to add by me. Except, as an engineer myself, it is galling to see something so poorly executed served up for a premium price. My take is that NOS is what the designer likes - I have never heard it - but let's assume is does something preferable that filtering does not and the aliases don't matter (and assuming it is not the aliasing that makes it sound preferable!). To do NOS you cannot use a sigma-delta DAC so you have to use one of the old R-2R-like DAC chips that are not as linear (the one in this DAC is particularly poor) or make your own discrete one (a lot of R&D). But, maybe, the low-level linearity doesn't matter that much because we really can't hear it but the effect of NOS we can hear (maybe) so you give up one thing to get something else. I think you can call that voicing - if the designer really understands that trade off and you think it is worth $9000+. OTOH, I feel a competent designer would at least have got the jitter performance right unless they don't know or don't care and then I'd be much less inclined to pay out $9000+ for laziness/incompetence.
Note, the CH Precision take a somewhat similar path in trading-off DAC linearity (using an R-2R-like chip, though much-much better than the one in the Mojo DAC) to allow more freedom in sculpting the digital filtering (not sure if NOS is an option, but might be).
And finally we have a company like dCS who just released a DAC upgrade that costs as much as the Mojo DAC because it offers better objective AND subjective performance - so say dCS and all the reviewers. Where does that leave things?
Yup. Folks like what they like.Thanks for your thoughtful reply!
all the best,
mrh
Edits: 04/12/23
As I mentioned, John Atkinson posted the following as a comment to the Mojo Mystique review on stereophile.com:
"Because of the conflict between the Mojo Mystique's measured performance and its sound quality, Editor Jim Austin asked me to write a follow-up review based on my own auditioning to be published in the May issue. That follow-up, which includes additional measurements, will be appended to this website reprint once the May issue has hit mailboxes and newsstands."
IIRC, I had to ask nicely to get John A. to make measurements of Winslow Burhoe's Direct Acoustics Silent Speaker II loudspeaker. But once he measured and listened, he said that it was "more than the sum of its parts."
My favorite part was overlay of its room response with JA's long-cherished original LS3/5As.
Fig.7 Direct Acoustics Silent Speaker II, spatially averaged, 1/6-octave response in JA's listening room (red trace); and of BBC LS3/5a (blue).
Nice.
john
I hope so!
I thought he summed up the measurement vs sound quality dilemma with that Mastersound amp pretty well.
JA's followup response to HR's review is in the May issue of Stereophile.
> JA's followup response to HR's review is in the May issue of Stereophile.
Now posted at the link below.
John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile
Thank you, John.
John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile
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