Classical Court

RE: "... as one stupid phrase succeeded another... in the most idiotic manner."

143.109.148.201

peppy m.

A

In Reply to: RE: Now that Zarlino has had his say about Khatia (and I apologize. . . posted by Chris from Lafayette on November 19, 2024 at 16:38:56

Ok, I realize that this is a subjective account of certain sound combinations that you were hearing...
In keeping with this fact, you go on to imply that your musical displeasure has something to do with the "obviousness" of this music. But, could you expound further?
What constitutes "obviousness" in the making of music ?
What is it that makes a musical phrase "stupid" ?
And finally, what constitutes an "idiotic manner" in the making of a "stupid" musical phrase ?
Inquiring minds would like to know...

Edits: 11/19/24 11/19/24 11/19/24

Follow Ups:

Touche - I see what you're doing! - Chris from Lafayette 01:14:28 11/20/24 (6)
Obviousness of the music: it's hackneyed, without distinction, sounding lazy, as if not much effort was required to come up with it. Yes, I realize that I've just added other words to my original use of "obviousness". But perhaps that rounds out the descriptor a bit more?
Stupid music: it's the type of music that anyone with half a brain could think of. For instance, some of the music was a feeble attempt at humor - but the attempt sounded no better (IMHO - remember, we're being subjective here!) than what was composed for zillions of "humorous" TV commercials from the 50's.
Idiotic manner: the attempt to pad an already stupid musical phrase with low quality sequences and repetition, possibly combined with all too obvious (there's that word again!) orchestration - e.g., one phrase played by a solo piccolo, the next phrase played by a bass (B-flat) tuba. Yeah, that's real wit - not! And besides, it's been used innumerable times by other composers
However, the whole discussion may all boil down to a similarity to Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's definition of "pornography" (in a 1964 decision): "I know it when I see it!" In the case of Shostakovitch's musical defects, I know them when I hear them! ;-)
BTW, have you heard the music in question yourself? Do you have an opinion on it?
EDIT: I just realized that you didn't seem too interested in the definition of "godawful CRAP". But maybe you're familiar with that concept already? ;-)

Edits: 11/20/24
- Shostakovitch - Zarlino 18:54:42 11/20/24 (3)
  Surprising as it may seem to some, I agree entirely with Chris' assessment and description of Shostakovitch's music.
  
  When Stravinsky was asked to name some other Russian composers, he thought a moment then said, "Well, there's Tchaikovsky."
  - Zarlino - I VERY much appreciate your post! - Chris from Lafayette 01:08:27 11/21/24 (2)
    And, once again, I apologize if my answer to your Khatia post below was overly harsh!
    
    As for Shostakovitch, I have to admit that there are SOME things I like - but they are few and far between. I kind of like his "patriotic" cantatas, such as "Song of the Forests" or "The Sun Shines Over Our Motherland", and I find the first Cello Concerto not bad at all.
    - Shostakovich selectively - pbarach 03:42:04 11/21/24 (1)
      Shostakovich may require some dumpster diving. There are gems to be found amid the trash, although I'm guessing no two people will agree. For me, the first and the last three of his symphonies are masterpieces, while most of the others are just too loud and too long for their musical material.
      - RE: Shostakovich selectively - peppy m. 06:21:28 11/21/24 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Shostakovich selectively posted by pbarach on November 21, 2024 at 03:42:04
        
        One of the only Shosty recordings I really like...
        Bashmet/Richter Sonatas (Open in New Window)
- Have not listened to the music referenced in a long time. Not a Shosty fan myself.... - peppy m. 08:06:11 11/20/24 (1)
  But now, you have me interested in reviewing my collection of "godawful CRAP" once again...
  
  Thanks, for that ! I won't forget to wipe afterwards.
  - In this case, you have to wipe your ears! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 11:14:18 11/20/24 (0)

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