Amp/Preamp Asylum

Lowest prices on amps with decent power supplies ?

143.109.148.201

peppy m.

Where does pricing for amps with decent power supplies start off these days ?

Follow Ups:

RE: Lowest prices on amps with decent power supplies ? - hahax@verizon.net 23:10:55 12/03/24 (3)
Doubling power as the speaker impedance halves is a good sign of a decent power supply. So normally doubling from 8 ohms to 4 ohms is a good sign. Then doubling again into 2 ohms is a really great supply and very rare. The least costly amps that did this but now long gone were the Carver Sunfire amps with a sliding power supply so they even ran cool and on top of this the power supply helped linearize the output, a fact hidden in the white paper. Of course we're only discussing solid state amps here as tube amps don't react this way with changing load impedance.

I've often wondered why this type of power supply wasn't taken up by other manufacturers especially since I suspect the patent is old enough now.
- Didn't Carver amps have a reputation for catching fire ? - peppy m. 05:22:15 12/04/24 (2)
  I wonder if the power supply had something to do with it...
  - Flame Linear!- nT - Cleantimestream 06:02:13 12/05/24 (0)
    !
    The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
  - RE: Didn't Carver amps have a reputation for catching fire ? - hahax@verizon.net 20:45:16 12/04/24 (0)
    I don't know but having read multiple magazines for years and surfed the net I never read about the fires, especially for the Sunfire amps. And while my sample is just a sample of 1(plus a friend who advised me to get a Sunfire so I guess a sample of 2) my amp is still fine after 2 decades(knock on wood).
    
    But more importantly were my comments on the quality of the power supply AND its affects on optimizing the operating area of the output devices.
Depends on the amp and your definition of 'decent' - AbeCollins 12:36:30 12/03/24 (14)
A decent PS for one amp might be indecent for another ;-)

True statement.
- I was thinking about buying this one... - peppy m. 14:02:48 12/03/24 (13)
  ...
  - Buckeye (Open in New Window)
  - RE: I was thinking about buying this one... - emailtim 11:42:51 12/04/24 (2)
    I am looking at that one and its 9040 big brother.
    
    The big brother has the optional Micro Audio SMPS which maxes out the 9040 amps which are rated @ 1,400 watts @ 2 ohm.
    
    1200 watts @ 2 ohm (Hypex SMPS)
    750 watts @ 4 ohm
    375 watts @ 8 ohm
    
    Buckeye has a 30 day return policy, but the customer pays the return shipping and 10% stocking fee for non-defective issue returns.
    
    .
    
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    - +1 (nt - peppy m. 12:41:32 12/04/24 (1)
      .
      - Many amps are rated at 1% THD - emailtim 13:47:16 12/04/24 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: +1 (nt posted by peppy m. on December 04, 2024 at 12:41:32
        
        The 9040 is rated at 0.1% THD, doubling down to 2 Ohms with a proper SMPS.
        That should satiate the requirements of some here.
        In comparison, that is better than my 150lbs $10K Mark Levinson #336 (SNR -80 dB vs -140 dB), but the ML is rated in continuous RMS.
        
        .
        
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        https://purifi-audio.com/document/share/59/a82eb980-951a-438 (Open in New Window)
        
        Edits: 12/04/24 12/04/24 12/04/24 12/04/24
  - RE: I was thinking about buying this one... - AbeCollins 19:44:16 12/03/24 (0)
    I was looking at that too and I can only assume that the designers (who have been doing Class D amps for a very long time) know what constitutes a decent switching power supply for their amps.
    Of course the old school crowd will insist on fat and heavy toroidal transformers and massive capacitors to handle the 60-Hz line frequency in those ancient linear power supply designs that our grandfathers mastered decades ago. They're easier to design and very simple to understand so that's what most folks will gravitate to. Linear power supplies are about the simplest circuits to understand often taught in H.S. Electronics shop class with a little more in depth teaching in college.
    If noise is a concern to these old timers they might not know that one of THE quietest amps and quietest preamps on the planet both use switching power supplies.... and many audio reviewers use these amps and preamps in their reference systems. Ask Kal and others ;-)
    
    Edits: 12/03/24
  - for me it is a NO - Leo loves music 18:20:20 12/03/24 (8)
    510 watts @ 2 ohm
    450 watts @ 4 ohm
    - What speakers are you running ? - peppy m. 22:31:57 12/03/24 (1)
      This amp doubles power at 4 ohms, good enough for most speakers I know of...
      How many speakers need double the power (once again) at 2 ohms ?
      Speakers that require doubling of power at 2 ohms might also require a lot more power at 8 ohms than this amp is able to deliver.
      So, 2 ohm power is a useless feature for me. I'm not running Apogee Scintillas...
      
      Edits: 12/03/24 12/03/24
      - RE: What speakers are you running ? - emailtim 11:22:32 12/04/24 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What speakers are you running ? posted by peppy m. on December 03, 2024 at 22:31:57
        
        FWIW, the doubling of power has to be taken with a grain of salt.
        
        Too many times it is all specsmenships and playing games with measurements.
        
        I have an amp that is advertised at 350/700/1400. When third party tested, it delivered way more than 350 into 8 ohms so the OEM fudged on the conservative side to feed into the perfect doubling numbers.
        
        That being said, I always want an amp that is at least stable @ 2Ohms because of the drivers I run with them.
        
        .
        
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    - RE: for me it is a NO - AbeCollins 19:30:25 12/03/24 (5)
      Why not? Do amps HAVE TO double power when impedance is halved even if the speaker is an easy benign load?
      
      510 watts @ 2 ohm
      450 watts @ 4 ohm
      
      is a helluva lot more power than I would ever need for my Tannoys.
      - for easy loads - Leo loves music 04:05:27 12/04/24 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: for me it is a NO posted by AbeCollins on December 03, 2024 at 19:30:25
        
        Why do I bother a class D amp to torture my ears? I have plenty nice class A/ class AB amps can comfortably offer 200W @ 8 ohms.
        
        RE: for easy loads - AbeCollins 08:04:16 12/04/24 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: for easy loads posted by Leo loves music on December 04, 2024 at 04:05:27
        
        "Why do I bother a class D amp to torture my ears? I have plenty nice class A/ class AB amps can comfortably offer 200W @ 8 ohms. "
        
        Spoken like a truly uninformed and highly biased (pun intended!) old geezer ;-)
        
        my requirement for class D - Leo loves music 17:11:05 12/04/24 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: for easy loads posted by AbeCollins on December 04, 2024 at 08:04:16
        
        1. reasonable good SQ.
        2. good value.
        3. can drive difficult speakers.
        
        Crown XLS 2502 meets my requirements so I bought two of them. I am listening to them right now with my big speakers.
        
        Enjoy your music.
        
        My requirement for class D - AbeCollins 07:58:59 12/05/24 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: my requirement for class D posted by Leo loves music on December 04, 2024 at 17:11:05
        
        1. Excellent SQ
        2. Good value
        3. Can drive my Tannoys and as a bonus my Thiels
        I've had a number of Class D amps over the decades beginning with the PS Audio HCA-2 back around 2002. Since then I've had others that were duds but many have improved significantly in recent years. I've had many traditional solid-state Class AB and even a couple Class A amps for comparison along with a few tube amps along the way. Like other modern amps some Class D are excellent, others not so much. But in general as a group they are much improved from even a short decade ago.
        
        Edits: 12/05/24
        
        RE: My requirement for class D - Leo loves music 08:55:27 12/05/24 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: My requirement for class D posted by AbeCollins on December 05, 2024 at 07:58:59
        
        I will leave class D to do the dirty job driving difficulty speakers. I will use class A/ 300B/ 845 to drive my high efficient JBL horns and even Tannoys.
Define "decent power supplies" - emailtim 16:07:08 12/02/24 (5)
Weight, # Farads, watts, current, temperature, linear, SMPS, etc. ???

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Edits: 12/02/24
- RE: Define "decent power supplies" - peppy m. 17:03:02 12/02/24 (1)
  Power supplies that are silent and don't restrict dynamics ?
  
  What do you think it means ?
  - RE: Define "decent power supplies" - emailtim 17:09:43 12/02/24 (0)
    It means different things to different people.
    
    To some, if there are no tubes in it, it ain't no good.
    
    Others measure by the pound.
    
    Others measure by the polish.
    
    Others measure by RMS even though music doesn't use RMS unless you are playing a sustained 20Hz warble to physically locate room nodes.
    
    I tend to agree with your definition with the addition of not blowing up. =)
    
    .
    
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- you forgot there are two kind of toilet flushing systems - Leo loves music 16:54:40 12/02/24 (2)
  one is used at your home and the other one is used in companies. Which one do you like?
  - for everyone who gets it - Leo loves music 17:53:50 12/02/24 (0)
    Enjoy enjoy your music and have a good night!
  - RE: you forgot there are two kind of toilet flushing systems - emailtim 17:47:51 12/02/24 (0)
    I wanted the ones that swirl counterclockwise, but they don't sell them here.
    .
    
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RE: Lowest prices on amps with decent power supplies ? - John Elison 16:06:21 12/02/24 (2)
It depends on what type of amplifier you're interested in and how much power you want. Recently, I switched to class-D amplifiers because the class-A/B amplifiers with decent power supplies have gotten too expensive for me, and the sound quality of class-D amplifiers has improved considerably.

For example, PS Audio has two new class-D monoblock amplifiers to which Stereophile gives an " A " rating in their Recommended Components . The first class-D amplifiers I bought were the PS Audio Stellar M1200 monoblocks , which I use to drive my Thiel CS3.7 speakers. Originally, these amplifiers cost $6,000 a pair, but they've now gone up to $7,000. However, they sound absolutely fantastic with my Thiel speakers, which require a lot of power to sound their best. These " A " rated class-D monoblocks deliver 600-watts into 8-ohms, 1200-watts into 4-ohms and they're stated to be stable into 2-ohms.

I needed some lower power amplifiers for my new Magnepan Mini Maggie speakers so I decided to take a chance on the Hypex Nilai 500 monoblock amplifiers , which cost $1990 a pair. These are rated at 260-watts into 8-ohms, 525-watts into 4-ohms and 500-watts into 2-ohms. They sound slightly better than my PS Audio Stellar M1200 monoblocks when driving my Mini Maggie speakers.

Any amplifier that delivers twice the power into 4-ohms that it delivers into 8-ohms must have decent power supplies. Therefore, if you want to save some money, check out some of the new class-D amplifiers. You can't go wrong with either of the ones I just mentioned.

Happy listening!
John Elison
- RE: Lowest prices on amps with decent power supplies ? - emailtim 17:00:57 12/02/24 (1)
  FWIW, the IcePower 1200as modules hover between -83dB to -96dB.
  The Nilai goes lower to -110dB, but not for all frequencies.
  
  .
  
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  Edits: 12/02/24
  - Thanks for the distortion graphs... - John Elison 12:22:47 12/15/24 (0)
    They look pretty good to me.
    
    As you probably know, harmonic distortion on fundamentals above 10-kHz is relatively insignificant because we're talking about a tiny harmonic at or above 20-kHz that we can't hear. At any rate, I can't hear anything above 10-kHz, let alone a tiny harmonic at 20-kHz or above. Perhaps that's why I find these amplifiers sound so good.
    
    Thanks!
    John Elison
you meant something like this? (nt) - Leo loves music 10:43:37 12/02/24 (2)
- Pricing is what I was asking about... - peppy m. 10:53:38 12/02/24 (1)
  Where does pricing start for amps with decent power supplies ?
  - RE: Pricing is what I was asking about... - Leo loves music 11:08:33 12/02/24 (0)
    It starts from $7830. By the way, it is not for sale.

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