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This has been a fun year system wise. Lrs' and ML Depth sub a constant throughout.
Spring -Summer, was driving my LRS' fed by a (balanced upgrade) Theta Miles, with my normal warm-weather amp Audiolab 8000a, or the truly so surprising and transparent Fosi v3 using a BAT vk-3i as a preamp.
Both the Audiolab and the vk-3i + Fosi have made for a normal, "this is fun to listen to" past several months.
But the first freeze is tonight, and so out comes the winter gear: BAT vk-3i and BAT vk-500. I see some inmates have used BAT ss power amps here.
The temps is supposed to get to get to low 20's tonight, and I am not good at a/b'ing or writing up such. If you want to know what I'm hearing, buy the stuff and see for yourself!
I matched levels using a db meter before swapping over, using some test tones.
There's just not comparison. My summer listening is fun and very engrossing. But Viktor nailed these designs.
The vk-3i + vk-500 are plush, amazing care for dynamics both large and small, rich, almost too plush, but with transparency and accuracy that simply puts a bigger soundfield, with tremendous body and clarity into the soundstage.
Bat season is fun.
RIP Phil Lesh.
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
Follow Ups:
After 2 days I wake up this morning and the right channel fuse had blown, and/or the internal fuses blew on both internal boards.Both the vk-3i and the vk-500 have been into a trusty shop ~ 6 months. The vk-31 went in for a double check up even, and runs another power amp (the Fosi) just fine.
Man, what a sucky morning! I ordered replacement fuses from amazon and we'll see, eh?
This is emotionally difficult. Yesterday, I was getting fully acclimated to the BAT sound as the cold approaches, and now I'm just going back to a completely lovely old Audiolab.
Nothing had gone wrong with the electricity over night. An old electronic clock still told the right time. When I had better air conditioning I would run that vk-500 all year, only turned it off when out of town.
This is not an easy amp to lug around at my age. If new fuses don't resolve the problems, I'm just pretty pissed. The shop is trustworthy.
Would BAT have put some trickery so that non-BAT techs would accidentally set it to kaboom if they worked on it???
I'll be acclimated to the 8000a by nightfall. You have to tweak the sub to get it to level match the vk-3i, and gone -- GONE ALAS -- is that rich soundfield the BAT was *supposed* to be gtg for. Damn this hobby!
[edit: everything is plugged into a grounded and protected power conditioner and dedicated circuit.]
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
Edits: 10/30/24
about putting new fuses in without getting to the root of may have happened. The fuses blew due to something not right internally. Before replacing the fuses pop the top and do a visual inspection and try to see if anything stands out. By putting new fuses in without know what caused the original fuses to blow could do more harm to the amp.
From what I have read the amp was on when you went to bed correct? Did you do a DC Offset check before connecting the amp in the system?
BTW, did the VK-500 have any upgrades from BAT?
I know this is a huge amp with Dual mono design and has two separate power switches. You at least have one good channel to reference.
This BAT VK-500 is the amp I always wanted from the first time I heard it. I heard it with a VK-5 preamp with Vandersteen 3A speakers. This was the best sounding system I had ever heard at that time and still sticks in my head how good it sound. The amp is worth being fixed.
My Edge M8 one day blew its external fuse on the AC inlet connecter upon power up. I opened it up and did a visual inspection with a magnifying glass up close at the large main filter caps, I saw some white looking substance around where the main caps were screws were. The one PS Cap had a very small pin hole right next to the screw mount. Cap went bad due to age, replaced (Upgrade the Caps) the caps. Slowly brought the amp back up with a variac with amp meter on it, no issues and let it run for about 30 mins. It was the main PS caps that was the root cause, I later restored the amp by replacing all the caps on it with better quality higher temp caps and better resistors. It sounds way better and no issues ever since.
Victor is here on the AA and should be able to help you out what to do or to look for.
I shall! The replacement fuses come tomorrow.
The vk-500 was looked at and a burned out diode was replaced a year ago. This was the first time I had even plugged it in. So in fact, it worked for two days. And yes, I left it on both nights. The amp is plugged into a Monster HTS-2500. Nothing else has ever had difficulty running from that unit for several years now.
My best guess is the shop did a visual inspection and missed a bad capacitor or two. The unit has the bat packs.
I would need St. Victor's help if it's the caps. Those are like 100 bucks a pop.
Currently running the vk-3i powering the little Fosi as a power amp. The Fosi likes 4 0um loads. I also switched in the sturdy Audiolab 8000a last night.
Only on hobbyist's boards would people think I am sane for complaining.
I will put in all new fuses tomorrow, and the amp is on a small shop cart. I'm going to roll it into a side room to simply see if it can stay powered up.
You are outside the listening room, vk-500! Behave!
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
Sorry to hear about your BAT amp. Any amp that age is ripe for some problems and possibly a rebuild. "When I had better air conditioning I would run that vk-500 all year, only turned it off when out of town." Those internal parts (like electrolytic filter caps) have been cooking daily 24/7 all those years?
I had a few older pieces that developed bulging filter caps after leaving them ON 24/7 or close to it over decades: PS Audio P300 power regenerator caps bulging and leaking. Popped fuses and stopped working. Classe 10 power amp bulging caps. Krell KSA-50S replaced filter caps but still had an intermittent problem. These were all decades old with lots of use.
Better to leave them on than to cycle on/off. That's where the stress happens...
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
If you listen to your amp daily it might be better to leave it ON 24/7. On the other hand if you listen maybe a couple times a week it's probably better to shut it off in between.
This is what I was told. If I did not mind the electricity bill, let it operate. It's a "very stable design."But there was a ~10 year period where it was in a working environment, so to speak. On and used, quite a good jolly bit! NEVER abused!!! My wife listened, I listened. Also, neighborhood kids knew they could always come over to have a treat. I'm talking the middle school kids.
It was mostly bananas. B A N A N A S, bananas. That tune is engraved in my brain.
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
Edits: 10/31/24
I had a VK-3i back in the 90s. Then I won a VK-30 in a contest on the now defunct Audio Revolution website. I foolishly sold the 3i before the 30 arrived. That was a mistake because the older preamp was better.A friend had the 3i/VK-200 combo about the same time. Sounded very good.
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
Edits: 10/29/24
My two BAt pieces are from early 2000's.I was thinking of selling the vk-500 (too heavy) but I've done it again: I've hitched up the preamp-amp combo and nah.
I'm original owner on all my gear except the turntable, which I thrifted back in the good old days. The Audiolab 8000a is from 92!
Last year I did a rotate of all my gear through a excellent electronics repair store. On the vk-3i: "There's nothing wrong with it."
That's 20+ years. One tube change. Kevin Deal hooked me up with some French tubes.
{EDIT: This board may understand. I had the vk-500 power switches replaced with simple basic switches that sit within the cut-out, not proud of the cut-out.
Viktor: Why the hell did you use those switches on the front? You break them if, whilst moving the amp, you rest the amp on its face, even on thick carpet!}
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
Edits: 10/29/24
I have the VK200 and agree with the plush comment...as well as a bit dark on the top end. Nice sound, but a bit on the colored side.
As I said in the Bach comment, that constant bit of darkness makes my so-familiar recording of the Cello suites by Fournier sound whole.
Those cello suites are my go-to. The well-known first movement -- the Prelude to suite 1 -- will not fatigue even the most fatigued Bach listener on this system. 75db peaks, nothing fancy. "Refreshing" is what I could call it.
And the cello suites and that prelude have been recorded to death. But BAT has an ear for classical music, and they got a cello perfect. I love my other gear, but the suites on this combo is a treat. Lower midrange and upper bass are front and center in the mix of this combo's sound.
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
Some mixed feelings here on BAT gear but generally very favorable. This was a couple decades ago and as I remember it:VK-200 Solid-state amp was incredibly robust and full-bodied with deep rich bass. Smooth and a little light in the high freqs. Reasonably transparent but not crystalline.
VK-30SE 6H30 preamp was similarly rich and deep with not a lot of top end but smooth along with some tube magic including soundstage. Which puzzles me compared to ARC preamps that also use the 6H30 tube. Oh I remember now. The 6H30 in ARC are just tube buffer stages after the JFETs. So basically ARC solid-state design with a couple 6H30 tubes tacked on the end. This was pretty common across the ARC product line including the old LS-16mkII and LS-25mkII that I owned.
VK-20 Solid-state preamp. This was an entry level BAT preamp with no tubes. It was actually more transparent and extended across the board vs the VK-30SE but a little flat sounding. Flat might not be the right word. It was a fine preamp but didn't seem to have the soul inherent in my VK-30SE.
Edits: 10/27/24 10/29/24
The Audiolab and the Fosi have a clarity that some would call "analytic." Speaking of the top end of the BAT gear, at moderate listening volumes, I would not call the vk-500 -vk-3i combo analytic and instead think of plush. By plush I imagine the notes emerging from a soft bed.
But describing sound is an unbelievably hard job. I listened to some Tchaikovsky orchestral suites, and the rhythms popped and the BAT has more body and snap. So plush does not = slow. In fact, as far as "bounce" goes, forget it. The BAT gear is grabbing control of these LRS's. Also, "dark" doesn't really fit.
But it does border on dark.
Funny hobby. Because I do like that Audiolab 8000a sound. And the Fosi was for me, the gem of this year -- what a little devil of a power amp!
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
Yes victor nailed it. I'm still enjoying a vk_3i (later upgraded to six packs) and a BAT VK-55 after all these years. The gear sounds 'right' and doesn't break. Probably a 'bad' business model, but leaves customers satisfied after an initial purchase.
Thank you to Victor.
Also, a most solid contributor and thought leader to AA over many years
I found the music/recording that perfectly expresses how the BAT combo excels.
Bach cello suites (Fournier - DG). With my other setup, the reediness of the cello is pronounced. With the BAT setup, that same reediness is embedded in a complete tonal context and under-text.
That's what I mean by plush vs analytic. I can turn the recording up louder if I prefer with the BAT gear.
/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
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