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Does what it says on the tin

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13th Duke of Wymbourne

In Reply to: RE: My point to Feanor posted by E-Stat on September 11, 2024 at 14:29:42

was a hugely successful British advertising campaign for outdoor waterproofing wood stain and that phrase became part of the culture so I throw it in occasionally for nostalgia and homesickness sake.
I am pretty sanguine about the measurement debate particularly as I enjoy my turntable and there is no way that medium can be defended as objectively accurate but is very enjoyable. But, SINAD is meaningful in a world of subjective reviewers because you can gauge the designer's intention - are they shooting for the lowest amount of artifacts or not. And if the latter we can then question why - is it because they are a lauded audio designer who has spent a long time experimenting and has some understanding of what they are doing (e.g. Nelson Pass) or a tweaker who has spent a long time experimenting but doesn't understand what they are doing or someone who is just a bad designer. Who do you most want to give your money too? I have seen some expensive gear shown up as unexcusably flawed by JA-classic's measurements. In one notable case, the designer spent column inches proclaiming his achievements only to be proved not just wrong but incompetent. The subjective review was great - the reviewer didn't know the novel feature didn't work when he listened.

On a larger scale, there is a lot of science denying in society. Saying that audio measurements do not correlate with enjoyment isn't science denying (and that should lead to more learnig of why) but, IMHO, saying that someone who lists those measurement results in magnitude order is clueless does.

Edits: 09/11/24

Follow Ups:

You didn't answer my question - E-Stat 16:08:07 09/11/24 (2)
Why repeat yourself to me? Forgetful?
On a larger scale, there is a lot of science denying in society.
Because a lot is just hooey lacking any notion of controls.
I just love other examples of audio *science* like a bogus interconnect test promoted by a speaker designer. Note: I changed ISPs and the embedded images are lost. I'll present them again. Surely as an engineer you have a capacitance meter like me. Replicate the test for yourself.

Edits: 09/11/24
- RE: You didn't answer my question - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 19:44:27 09/11/24 (1)
  Sorry If I used the 'says on the tin' twice. That does spoil the effect. But nice to know you remember my posts better than I do :) And now I know to stay away when you are berating an ASR-nause.
  I have zero interest in cables, not even enough to think through what you're demonstrating. I do miss Duster though, he was entertaining.
  
  One last word that you might find germane, yesterday I watched part of a long interview with Formula 1 car designer Adrian Newey and he talked about how the simulation tools and measurement systems have advanced dramatically since he started in F1 but he always takes seriously comments from the drivers about how the car performs even if what they say does not make sense to him based on his expectations of how the car should perform.
  - Thanks - E-Stat 06:45:56 09/12/24 (0)
    And now I know to stay away when you are berating an ASR-nause.
    
    If you have something *new* to say to me, that's fine.
    
    I have zero interest in cables
    
    Ok. That's like a car enthusiast who has no interest in tires.
    
    but he always takes seriously comments from the drivers about how the car performs...
    
    BTW, we really enjoyed the experience at Silverstone this year even with all the mud!
    
    I made that analogy years ago in a funny interaction with a clueless TV repairman who averred:
    
    Likewise, the A-C power cord can have no effect whatsoever on the performance of an electronic component ... none.
    
    I just love non-experiential theorists!
    
    That concept has always held true with audio as well. Lee Kuby, a Harman-Kardon engineer said this about his designs :
    
    "It took H/K a year to design the Citation 11 preamplifier and seven months to improve it sonically"
    
    Engineering theory is a great place to start...

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