In Reply to: So IOW, it's just as I suggested? posted by Chris from Lafayette on June 11, 2024 at 01:44:16:
No, it has to do with AUDIBLE distortion. Your ear/brain have certain filters and masking processes that work wonders on removing the audibility of certain types of distortion but products that have other profiles will be exposed. Psychoacoustics is an interesting field and it leads to some rather interesting conclusions such as THD and IMD are essentially meaningless when it comes to listeners observation of what SOUNDS distorted or clean to them. Geddes found no correlation and even a slight downward trend.
Cheever went further and said that it is the harmonic components and their correct weighting that gives the best prediction and derived his equation from what is known about masking of low order harmonics and the ears own self-generated distortion.
If designers were to use psychoacoustic tools for designing their gear there would probably be a lot more good sounding gear.
The argument a lot of the extreme measuring products have is that they have pushed the distortion so low that it is "inaudible" and therefore the whole psychoacoustic issue is moot. However, there is sufficient evidence in the scientific and engineering literature that suggests that using huge amounts of negative feedback to suppress distortion harmonics damages the sound in other ways that are quite difficult to measure and won't be obvious from standard measurements. As Mel stated high feedback designs tend to sound threadbare and sometimes even harsh. Is that just revealing the "warts and all" of the recordings? If so, there are a lot of bad recordings out there. Even really good ones will suffer from this treatment. In other words, how you achieve a result is also affecting the end result...its more path dependent rather than state dependent and this is primarily due to the fact that our hearing is more than a little bit complicated...and not at all like a microphone and oscilloscope.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Follow Ups
- RE: So IOW, it's just as I suggested? - morricab 01:22:02 06/13/24 (44)
- RE: So IOW, it's just as I suggested? - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 14:21:06 06/13/24 (0)
- I agree that huge amounts of negative feedback are generally considered. . . . . . - Chris from Lafayette 11:01:35 06/13/24 (42)
- RE: I agree that huge amounts of negative feedback are generally considered. . . . . . - morricab 02:25:38 06/17/24 (0)
- Yep - E-Stat 07:07:54 06/14/24 (40)
- So are you an absolutist? - Chris from Lafayette 11:41:34 06/14/24 (39)
- RE: So are you an absolutist? - morricab 02:44:19 06/17/24 (12)
- Thanks for the link to the Nelson Pass article - Chris from Lafayette 10:58:32 06/17/24 (11)
- RE: Thanks for the link to the Nelson Pass article - morricab 01:05:58 06/18/24 (10)
- As previously observed - E-Stat 15:35:02 06/18/24 (7)
- Bum rap again! - Chris from Lafayette 11:23:34 06/19/24 (6)
- Your challenge is - E-Stat 16:38:42 06/19/24 (5)
- No, YOUR challenge is not to be star struck by. . . - Chris from Lafayette 17:19:58 06/23/24 (1)
- Too funny! - E-Stat 18:05:34 06/23/24 (0)
- RE: Your challenge is - morricab 03:53:47 06/20/24 (2)
- I'm sorry for the two of you, but the critical observation Geddes made. . . - Chris from Lafayette 17:02:12 06/23/24 (1)
- RE: I'm sorry for the two of you, but the critical observation Geddes made. . . - morricab 02:58:14 06/28/24 (0)
- Taken to its logical conclusion, your point would mean. . . - Chris from Lafayette 11:14:47 06/18/24 (1)
- RE: Taken to its logical conclusion, your point would mean. . . - morricab 04:03:07 06/20/24 (0)
- Just a music lover - E-Stat 12:37:24 06/14/24 (25)
- Bum rap alert! - Chris from Lafayette 14:36:31 06/14/24 (16)
- RE: Bum rap alert! - E-Stat 14:50:20 06/14/24 (15)
- RE: Bum rap alert! - Chris from Lafayette 15:11:59 06/14/24 (14)
- RE: Bum rap alert! - E-Stat 15:26:06 06/14/24 (13)
- That's a non sequitur - yet another bum rap - Chris from Lafayette 00:47:23 06/15/24 (12)
- RE: That's a non sequitur - yet another bum rap - morricab 04:10:11 06/17/24 (11)
- What correlation are you talking about? - Chris from Lafayette 11:06:55 06/18/24 (0)
- Absolutely! - E-Stat 16:38:21 06/17/24 (3)
- Yeah - except that THD is only one measurement among many, and. . . - Chris from Lafayette 11:03:38 06/18/24 (2)
- RE: Yeah - except that THD is only one measurement among many, and. . . - morricab 04:06:54 06/20/24 (0)
- Just an utterly useless one! -nt - E-Stat 11:25:34 06/18/24 (0)
- But if that's true, then why does he say what he did in the interview. . . - Chris from Lafayette 10:39:08 06/17/24 (5)
- RE: But if that's true, then why does he say what he did in the interview. . . - morricab 01:11:06 06/18/24 (4)
- Your claim is completely incompatible with his statement - Chris from Lafayette 11:34:34 06/19/24 (3)
- RE: Your claim is completely incompatible with his statement - morricab 03:08:42 06/20/24 (2)
- I think GedLee did his best work in Rush - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 12:02:45 06/20/24 (1)
- RE: I think GedLee did his best work in Rush - morricab 05:45:55 06/21/24 (0)
- SINAD denier, stop the steal! - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 12:46:29 06/14/24 (7)
- Too funny! - E-Stat 13:49:45 06/14/24 (6)
- Too funny is right! - Chris from Lafayette 14:40:08 06/14/24 (5)
- RE: Too funny is right! - morricab 04:11:06 06/17/24 (4)
- Yes - I agree with that! - Chris from Lafayette 10:36:05 06/17/24 (3)
- RE: Yes - I agree with that! - morricab 01:28:01 06/18/24 (2)
- RE: Yes - I agree with that! - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 18:51:20 06/18/24 (1)
- RE: Yes - I agree with that! - morricab 03:48:43 06/20/24 (0)