In Reply to: Jeff... posted by Henry Pasternack on December 13, 2006 at 06:15:28:
Henry, the point of Jeff's story is valid- in properly controlled testing, cues need to be accounted for. Relay clicks that are different from A to B or slight differences in timing can give false positive results (like this one). That's yet another reason why controlled experiments are so rarely done by hobbyists: it's damn hard and damn tedious to control the variables.Here's another confounding variable for polarity tests: speaker distortion. If the "out" is not the same as the "in" for a diaphragm motion, polarity reversal will be much more audible because of the change in distortion.
Have you seen Lipshitz/Vanderkooy's papers on polarity? Dick Greiner also did some fine work in that area. Their conclusions were that it can be audible, but it's a very subtle thing except on carefully chosen test signals.
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Transformer loaded 6SN7 pre…… it’s alive. - martyh 16:37:13 12/10/06 (134)
- What's the RCA transformer number? - grhughes 11:30:59 12/11/06 (3)
- Re: What's the RCA transformer number? - martyh 17:10:00 12/11/06 (2)
- Thanks, I'm working along similar lines.... - grhughes 17:40:03 12/11/06 (1)
- Re: Thanks, I'm working along similar lines.... - martyh 18:44:04 12/11/06 (0)
- What is the benefit of the input transformer? - Doug Flynn 11:00:17 12/11/06 (3)
- Re: What is the benefit of the input transformer? - dave slagle 11:50:25 12/11/06 (1)
- Re: What is the benefit of the input transformer? - Steve Eddy 12:03:06 12/11/06 (0)
- Re: What is the benefit of the input transformer? - Steve Eddy 11:31:42 12/11/06 (0)
- Re: Transformer loaded 6SN7 pre…… it’s alive. - drlowmu 20:14:59 12/10/06 (84)
- Re: Transformer loaded 6SN7 pre…… it’s alive. - martyh 06:33:10 12/11/06 (1)
- Thats true about some RCA trannys - MIchael Samra 09:06:55 12/11/06 (0)
- Mighty nice hearing stuff played back in proper absolute phase !! - Allen Wright 05:09:02 12/11/06 (79)
- Re: Mighty nice hearing stuff played back in proper absolute phase !! - martyh 06:35:33 12/11/06 (0)
- Re: Mighty nice hearing stuff played back in proper absolute phase !! - drlowmu 05:48:32 12/11/06 (0)
- Re: Mighty nice hearing stuff played back in proper absolute phase !! - arend-jan 05:46:13 12/11/06 (76)
- may I ask, what difference do you hear when switching absolute phase? - Allen Wright 05:18:50 12/12/06 (20)
- Thanks Allen, I'm going to try it myself. (nt) - arend-jan 03:13:16 12/13/06 (0)
- Well Said Allen !! - drlowmu 22:11:26 12/12/06 (18)
- Re: Well Said Allen !! - andyr 12:44:33 12/13/06 (15)
- Re: Well Said Allen !! - drlowmu 23:01:53 12/13/06 (14)
- Re: Well Said Allen !! - andyr 23:21:09 12/13/06 (13)
- Re: Well Said Allen !! - drlowmu 00:21:10 12/14/06 (12)
- Re: Well Said Allen !! - andyr 02:40:14 12/14/06 (11)
- Re: Well Said Allen !! - drlowmu 10:20:11 12/14/06 (10)
- OK ... OK ... OK ... - andyr 11:43:33 12/14/06 (0)
- Try prayer - Henry Pasternack 10:49:10 12/14/06 (8)
- In case anyone got the wrong impression... - Henry Pasternack 18:40:37 12/14/06 (7)
- Does the same thing work with CDs? - Ray Moth 02:37:13 12/15/06 (6)
- What are CDs? - drlowmu 10:51:39 12/15/06 (5)
- Re: What are CDs? - Ray Moth 14:38:38 12/15/06 (4)
- Re: What are CDs? - Naz 16:04:31 12/17/06 (3)
- Re: What are CDs? - drlowmu 19:16:15 12/17/06 (2)
- Haven't heard an eight track in a long time but ... - Naz 20:17:00 12/17/06 (1)
- Yes (nt) - drlowmu 06:24:42 12/18/06 (0)
- Re Bob Fulton - Allen Wright 05:37:58 12/13/06 (1)
- Wow !! - drlowmu 09:46:30 12/13/06 (0)
- Re: Mighty nice hearing stuff played back in proper absolute phase !! - Chris O 05:59:03 12/11/06 (54)
- Re: Mighty nice hearing stuff played back in proper absolute phase !! - Steve Eddy 09:50:35 12/11/06 (23)
- I don't understand - Ray Moth 01:31:23 12/12/06 (0)
- Re: I don't understand - Steve Eddy 09:00:43 12/12/06 (19)
- Re: I don't understand - Ray Moth 18:23:35 12/12/06 (18)
- Re: I don't understand - Steve Eddy 21:56:44 12/12/06 (6)
- Re: I don't understand - Ray Moth 23:10:15 12/12/06 (0)
- Steve, ( Post of the decade ) well, not quite.... - drlowmu 22:53:32 12/12/06 (4)
- Re: Steve, ( Post of the decade ) well, not quite.... - Ray Moth 23:16:24 12/12/06 (3)
- Re: Steve, ( Post of the decade ) well, not quite.... - drlowmu 23:26:45 12/12/06 (2)
- "You are a good thinker..." - Henry Pasternack 06:20:03 12/13/06 (1)
- I 'think' that's a typo - Ray Moth 05:06:24 12/14/06 (0)
- Re: I don't understand - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 18:34:22 12/12/06 (10)
- Asymmetric - Henry Pasternack 20:04:09 12/12/06 (9)
- Re: Real world example - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 03:47:01 12/13/06 (0)
- Re: Asymmetric - Ray Moth 23:08:23 12/12/06 (7)
- Re: Asymmetric....................really ???? - drlowmu 00:04:03 12/13/06 (6)
- Jeff... - Henry Pasternack 06:15:28 12/13/06 (4)
- Re: Jeff... - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 06:53:50 12/13/06 (2)
- Re: Jeff... - drlowmu 08:51:27 12/13/06 (0)
- Re: Jeff... - Henry Pasternack 07:58:14 12/13/06 (0)
- Henry,...... - drlowmu 06:37:10 12/13/06 (0)
- The Q is: which sounded better A or B? (nt) - arend-jan 03:11:06 12/13/06 (0)
- Dull NFB - Chris O 04:45:55 12/12/06 (0)
- I agree (nt) - Chris O 13:12:40 12/11/06 (0)
- Re: Mighty nice hearing stuff played back in proper absolute phase !! - drlowmu 06:15:32 12/11/06 (29)
- The problem with all this... - Henry Pasternack 08:28:20 12/11/06 (28)
- Very good points ... - Naz 16:40:59 12/11/06 (4)
- so which one do we wire for "absolute phase"? - Allen Wright 05:21:48 12/12/06 (3)
- It was a rhetorical question … - Naz 04:58:51 12/13/06 (2)
- Re: It was a rhetorical question … - drlowmu 06:45:19 12/13/06 (1)
- Hey Jeff I get it … - Naz 19:29:50 12/13/06 (0)
- The problem with all this...is that the truth is inconvenient - mylesmf 09:14:04 12/11/06 (2)
- Re: The problem with all this...is that the truth is inconvenient - Henry Pasternack 19:54:59 12/11/06 (1)
- Here's the links to Henry's low DCR/HY/C analysis... - darkmoebius 08:49:45 12/12/06 (0)
- Re: The problem with all this... - drlowmu 09:12:36 12/11/06 (9)
- Re: The problem with all this... - Henry Pasternack 19:09:58 12/11/06 (8)
- Like throwing buns to a bear - Ray Moth 18:32:04 12/12/06 (7)
- Nope! - NoWay 09:50:32 12/13/06 (0)
- Re: Like throwing buns to a bear - drlowmu 22:58:40 12/12/06 (5)
- LOL! I was expecting flames - Ray Moth 22:48:18 12/13/06 (4)
- Re: LOL! I was expecting flames - drlowmu 23:05:33 12/13/06 (3)
- Re: LOL! I was expecting flames - arend-jan 09:52:29 12/14/06 (0)
- for some...:) - NoWay 03:17:22 12/14/06 (1)
- Yea, verily - Ray Moth 05:22:57 12/14/06 (0)
- Re: The problem with all this... - Steve Eddy 09:11:41 12/11/06 (9)
- Re: The problem with all this... - Henry Pasternack 11:07:48 12/11/06 (7)
- Re: The problem with all this... - mach1 17:49:18 12/11/06 (2)
- Re: The problem with all this... - Lew 18:21:41 12/11/06 (1)
- Re: The problem with all this... - mach1 18:06:17 12/12/06 (0)
- Re: The problem with all this... - rdf 17:20:09 12/11/06 (3)
- Re: The problem with all this... - Henry Pasternack 19:47:05 12/11/06 (2)
- no disrespect intended to Allen. - Allen Wright 05:34:05 12/12/06 (1)
- Re: no disrespect intended to Allen. - drlowmu 23:09:03 12/12/06 (0)
- Well said !! (nt) - drlowmu 09:15:57 12/11/06 (0)
- Jeff Medwin - lovetube 01:36:29 12/11/06 (1)
- Re: Jeff Medwin - drlowmu 05:59:47 12/11/06 (0)
- The basic schematic again. - martyh 16:38:49 12/10/06 (40)
- Re: bias location and noise - martyh 20:16:30 12/12/06 (0)
- Unrelated question about this schematic - Nickel Core 10:51:23 12/11/06 (9)
- Re: Unrelated question about this schematic - Joel Tunnah 14:22:05 12/11/06 (6)
- Re: Unrelated question about this schematic - Nickel Core 15:31:31 12/11/06 (5)
- Re: Unrelated question about this schematic - dave slagle 06:32:48 12/12/06 (0)
- Re: Unrelated question about this schematic - danlaudionut 20:41:45 12/11/06 (2)
- Re: Unrelated question about this schematic - Joel Tunnah 03:14:43 12/12/06 (1)
- Re: Unrelated question about this schematic - danlaudionut 05:02:41 12/12/06 (0)
- Re: Unrelated question about this schematic - Joel Tunnah 16:20:54 12/11/06 (0)
- Re: Unrelated question about this schematic - danlaudionut 13:16:57 12/11/06 (1)
- Yes, of course.... thanks (nt). - Nickel Core 13:37:04 12/11/06 (0)
- No DC across volume control pot, please. - cheap-Jack 08:53:42 12/11/06 (9)
- Re: No DC across volume control pot, please. - Joel Tunnah 13:36:54 12/11/06 (8)
- So the textbook is wrong then. - cheap-Jack 07:58:33 12/12/06 (7)
- You're right, Jack (nt) - Henry Pasternack 15:00:18 12/12/06 (5)
- Hi, Henry. - cheap-Jack 08:32:16 12/13/06 (4)
- Re: Hi, Henry. - Henry Pasternack 18:45:32 12/14/06 (3)
- Frankly, I don't have the patience even if .. - cheap-Jack 07:24:15 12/15/06 (2)
- Re: Frankly, I don't have the patience even if .. - Henry Pasternack 08:34:37 12/15/06 (1)
- Yes, you can say it again ( about music school). - cheap-Jack 08:55:36 12/15/06 (0)
- No... - Joel Tunnah 09:14:38 12/12/06 (0)
- Re: The basic schematic again. - korneluk 17:49:47 12/10/06 (1)
- Bias is -9V - martyh 18:04:18 12/10/06 (0)
- Re: The basic schematic again. - dave slagle 17:43:16 12/10/06 (16)
- A bit near maximum volume - martyh 18:02:10 12/10/06 (15)
- Re: A bit near maximum volume - Chris O 19:17:14 12/10/06 (14)
- Wait a minute - Dave Cigna 16:09:00 12/11/06 (7)
- How are you so sure? - cheap-Jack 08:21:35 12/12/06 (3)
- Re: How are you so sure? - Dave Cigna 16:06:00 12/12/06 (2)
- Yea, I'm a "muddy-minded blabbler". - cheap-Jack 09:10:45 12/13/06 (1)
- I need to apologize - Dave Cigna 15:45:20 12/13/06 (0)
- Re: "I don't see any current going through the wiper here." - Ivan303 18:36:13 12/11/06 (0)
- Re: Wait a minute - martyh 18:02:01 12/11/06 (1)
- Please let us know if changing the battery position - Ivan303 18:39:06 12/11/06 (0)
- Re: A bit near maximum volume - martyh 06:31:46 12/11/06 (5)
- Why can't you use the battery alone as bias on the cathode? - Ivan303 08:34:20 12/11/06 (2)
- Re: Why can't you use the battery alone as bias on the cathode? - martyh 11:42:13 12/11/06 (1)
- Re: Why can't you use the battery alone as bias on the cathode? - danlaudionut 13:28:28 12/11/06 (0)
- Re: A bit near maximum volume - dave slagle 08:05:20 12/11/06 (1)
- Re: A bit near maximum volume - martyh 12:17:52 12/11/06 (0)
Follow Ups
- Re: Jeff... - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 06:53:50 12/13/06 (2)
- Re: Jeff... - drlowmu 08:51:27 12/13/06 (0)
- Re: Jeff... - Henry Pasternack 07:58:14 12/13/06 (0)