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Okay - well let's look at your example for starters.

'In fact those who hold to these beliefs do so, so strongly they come up with dogma to enable them to support thier beliefs like this one Peter Aczel "...a "properly designed" amplifier has no sound of its own.'

All properly designed amplifiers sound the same? I don't think so. I think all IDEAL amplifiers (a wire with gain) sound the same, but nobody has ever heard an ideal amplifier!!

Now, is Mr. Aczel saying that a properly designed amp, whether it is SET, OTL, class A, Class AB, Class D or T all going to sound the same?

To make this statement we surely need to define "proper design".

In my business, 'proper design' is getting the job done on-time and on-budget, while meeting minimum code and IEEE requirements, and any additional customer specific requirements, or things which clearly add value due to improved safety, functionality, maintainability, and durability. There is little subjectivity in electrical engineering, save for what people consider to be "sufficient room for expansion", which varies depending on who you ask.

Now in audio amplifier design (admittdely something I know little about) do not some of the best designers speak of the "sound character" of different fundamental design types? I thought many amp designers thought amplifiers had a "voice" - perhaps not as obvious as the "voice" loudspeakers have, but a voice nonetheless.

Some prefer to call things that have a voice simply a source of distortion (or modification of the source material aka BAD). Others speak of "voicing" as a positive thing - something they can control, even manipulate and modify. It's a VERB in speaker design... to "voice a loudspeaker"... aka to add a subjective analysis loop to the design process. Voicing involves circular refinement (change-listen-change-listen) with some testing in between, but only insofar as to ensure that one is not deviating too far from a predermined measurable benchmark.

So, according to Mr. Aczel, designers who "voice" things like amps or speakers are simply wasting their time because if they designed a good amp (or speaker) in the first place the unit would HTML tag not allowed


My SET 300B sound different than other amps. The soundstage is different. The vocals are different. How can you measure involvement? How can you measure "perceived size" of performers and instruments? You can't. It's a subjective analysis. Is the perceived speed of those 300B amps measureable, perhaps in the area of slew rate? Does it matter if the amps just consistently SOUND faster despite slew rate measurements?

So how do we differentiate between "acceptable" subjective analysis and mere psychological delusion? Must there be corollary between measured data and what is heard? Or must there only be a concensus between a group of folks who performed their own subjective analysis? Or does the subjective analysis of the individual trump the results of measurements AND other people? From an existential standpoint, it really only matters what the individual hears, and what that individual deems pleasing. The trick, imo, is to know when scientific tools are the order of the day, and when subjective analysis and consideration of psychological effects (both positive and negative) are called for.

Most good designers seem to suggest that building a "successful whatever" for audio requires a mix of science and art, a mix of measurement and subjective appraisal.

So, you could say I disagree with Mr. Aczel, and agree with designers who maintain that specific designs have their own unique "voice".

These are subtle differences at times, but I feel I've experienced them far too often and consistently for them to be merely a figment of my imagination.

Imagine, a guy in engineering that likes measuring his audio systems and DIY speakers and crossovers saying "I know what I hear". Sometimes we're NOT being fooled. Sometimes there IS a difference!

The question is, in some cases, "Okay, that's different - but is it really BETTER??"

I guess I am a "SObjectivist" after all!

But how *can* you reduce a human experience to a set of measurements?

Cheers,
Presto

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