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Re: Just to give you a taste

Posted by morricab (S) on May 10, 2007 at 13:55:06

In Reply to: Re: Just to give you a taste posted by geoffkait on May 10, 2007 at 09:43:58:

"Your own evidence already proved your theory wrong, you just refuse to see the logic. As your evidence stated: Louder sounds subjectively more detailed AND more dynamic"

Nonsense. You pulled one quote (out of context I might add) out of all the other VOLUMES of evidence showing what a problem compression and loudness are causing with popular music. I win again.

"And the reason why the recording engineers are cutting CDs at higher levels? -- they sound better! Case closed."

Not so fast there Mr. Kait, those same engineers have this to say (god! having to quote to shut you up, but since you won't read them yourself...)

"First of all, let me point out that I am an audio engineer/producer as much as a music critic/reviewer. I had been doing music recording since back in high school in the mid 1960s, and I produce and engineer a lot of music, almost an album's worth of each week for the Homegrown Music series (probably well over 700 so far), and have also produced or engineered numerous CDs and LPs. In my capacity as a Public Radio producer, programmer and host, I get the opportunity both to evaluate and program music for radio audiences, and to produce it in the studio. As you can see from my album reviews and playlists, I get to audition a lot of records, and think I have formed a pretty good idea of what makes a record sound good and why."

"Where the current pressure is coming from is unclear, but several prominent mastering engineers have complained that they are being pushed to make the CDs they work on as loud as possible."

See, being pushed to make them louder, ie. there is external pressure and not their choice.

"My CD player has a digital level display, and I am also able to take the digital output of a CD and run it into a computer editing system allowing statistical study of audio levels, and I am constantly appalled at how many CDs spent most of their time in the top 3-4 db of the 90 db available, with absolute digital maximum level being reached very frequently -- sometimes on every beat. Sophisticated digital compressors alleviate the all the horrible distortion that would normally happen from hitting the digital "brick wall," but nuances and the "airy" quality of the recording are murdered."

So clear evidence of what is being done to the cds. NO DYNAMIC RANGE. ALL DONE AT THE SAME LOUDNESS.

"The fallacy that seems to have become pervasive among many people in the pop music recording field, especially among record companies, is that if a CD is pushing the absolute digital max it will somehow be louder or better on the air and presumably win more airplay, and thus sell more copies to the public. This is not true at all. "

YOU SEE? IT IS A FALLACY TO BELIEVE THAT LOUDER IS BETTER. ALL THE SAME LOUDNESS IS BASICALLY LIKE NOISE.

"The only thing that is accomplished is messing up the dynamic range for those who pay their good money for CDs, "squashing" the life out of any acoustic instruments in the mix, and increasing listener fatigue."

NO LIFE, LISTENER FATIGUE? GEE THAT COULDN'T BE THE CASE WITH MR. KAITS POP RECORDINGS EVEN THOUGH HIS MUST HAVE TONS OF DYNAMIC RANGE, RIGHT MR. KAIT?

"Compression is commonly used in the final mix, and this is where things can go seriously wrong - everything is at the same volume, peak to average ratio is minimal, and the resulting sound is almost always worse than it was before the compression was applied. Used correctly, a small amount of compression may be useful with some musical styles, but it is completely unsuited to others. I have several CDs that sound "exciting" at first, but the sameness of having a constant barrage of sound at the same level becomes extremely fatiguing in only a short time."

WELL,WHATABOUTTHISQUOTEMR. KAIT?CARETOCOMMENTONTHISONE?YOUSEEFORTHAONE COMMENTYOUDUGOUTOFWHATILINKEDTOTHEREAREABOUT50SAYINGTHEEXACTOPPOSITE ANDFROMENGINEERSANDPRODUCERSNOLESS.SOCLEARLYTHEREISABUSINESSCONCEPTAT WORKNOTRELATEDTOSOUNDQUALITY.CARETOEXPLAINTHESHARPDECLINEINCDSALES EVENBEFOREDOWNLOADINGOFFTHEINTERNETBECAMETHESTANDARD?MAYBEITWASTHE SOUNDOFTHECRAPPYPOPRECORDINGS?JUSTATHOUGHT...

ORTHISONE:

"I don't want it to be "hot", I want it to sound the way it should, with real dynamics, soft and loud passages, and things that make me jump! Fortunately, I am not alone, but unfortunately, record companies are still producing material for people with crap systems"

I guess he is referring to your system since you SEEM to get real dynamics from recordings that have none.

"Be that as it may, there is not really much point in setting up the "ultimate" hi-fi system, with headroom to spare and almost zero distortions of any kind, only to have the music CD pre-distorted, compressed, limited and bent so far out of shape that it is no longer useful for anything other than a coaster."

Nice final comment...got classical Mr. Kait??

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