 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
198.54.202.195
In Reply to: The art of building Computer Transports posted by cics on April 5, 2007 at 08:00:10:
Paper is at version 0.1.Additional useful suggestions and insights have been gained from Audio Asylum. I wanted to summarize these by separate reply posts under this post (that way no need to review posts elsewhere). Note, AA links are given where optimization was already explained.
These additional enhancements (changes, more information and new optimizations) yield good improvements. At this refined level of optimization, I don't need shielding on my soundcard (i.e. removed Quantum Physics Noise Disruptor).
Follow Ups:
This is a low level Windows change. My initial plan was to introduce it in the next document release. However sonic improvements are significant as in changing to Intel’s E2140 processor (change 16). You should hear improved dynamics, transients and harmonic richness.
Goto Control Panel > System > Advanced TAB > Settings button for ‘Startup and Recovery’. See picture above. Press ‘Edit’ button. Notepad is used to edit boot.ini file (hidden system file in root directory). Two changes are needed which should be done one at a time. Make a backup of c:\boot.ini file. TAKE GREAT CARE IN MAKING THESE CHANGES!
First change: Edit entry ‘/noexecute=optin’ OR in rare cases, ‘/noexecute=optout’ to ‘/noexecute=alwaysoff’. Save file. If you get an error, uncheck read only flag in c:\boot.ini file properties (make sure you set file explorer to show hidden files and uncheck ‘hide system files’). Reboot & test. This change works best when ‘CPU Feature’ BIOS settings for ‘Execute Disable Bit’ is disabled. See link below. DEP (Data Execution Protection) feature of Windows is now disabled and low level overheads are removed both at CPU and Windows levels.
Second change: Add ‘/pcilock’ command. This disables Windows IRQ assignments to PCI devices and forces Windows to use BIOS settings. Your Windows commands line in boot.ini file should look like this:
...
...WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=alwaysoff /fastdetect /pcilock
Reboot & test. This change may not work on some Dell PCs where both keyboard and mouse functions are lost. In this rare event, you must remove ‘/pcilock’ command. This is done by installing your boot harddisk drive in a working computer as a secondary drive. This way, you can access ?:\ boot.ini file and remove the entry.
I did the first change and got some improvement. I have a dell and am not planning on trying the second change right now. I have usb inputs only for mouse and keyboard. I have two boot hard drives in a raid, and no other computers to use, so I wouln't want to have ot repair boot.ini if my input devices stopped working.
'/nodebug' gives improvements but can give minor video problems if PC is also used for DVDs (as video driver may need kernal debugger).
I was just playing around with my affinities. Ending up setting everything possible to just the 2nd processor only (the one with the check box by the 1, not the 0).
I think I was able to modify the bat file to have all processes run at low priority also which is nice.
The major change I noticed, was when I went into processes explorer. right-clicked on an application (foobar) and chose properties..selected the TCP/IP tab and unchecked the Resolve addresses box. I felt this was quite a substantial improvement.
The only caveat is you have to keep the process explorer running for that change to stay in effect. For fun, I right clicked process explorer and selected suspend. Then when I closed foobar and explorer came back up, I opened another instance of process explorer to kill the first one.
When you uncheck Resolve addresses for one, it unchecks it for all other processes, so it seems to be a process explorer feature.
Anyway, maybe that check box gives you a clue about something in the system that uses TCP/IP that is used on the process level. Let me know if you can try unchecking that box and whether you hear the same improvement I did. It was not subtle on my end.
I'll try that this week hopefully. I use zoom player to play dvd content which uses a bunch of nvidia stuff and whatever else..maybe that change will work.
Off topic, but I just got some nice improvements by using a cheater plug to remove the ground from a tice power conditioner that is plugged into my main power conditioner (it removes some additional grunge so I keep it plugged in, and now even more without the ground). I already use a cheater plug to remove the ground connection from my lexicon processor. I'm pretty sure using a cheater plug on the computer itself would sound better. I'm not worried about the ground connection yet anyway because I just moved to a new place and the living room outlets are not grounded. I may get an electrician to run a new grounded circuit. I'm starting it least with putting in a audiophile outlet that just got delivered. Anyway, if you can try a cheater plug on anything, you may like what you hear!
I don't think I have any video problems after adding the 'nodebug' line, so that's cool. I also put a cheater plug on the end of my power cord to the computer. That smoothed out the overall sound some more too.
Are you sure there isn't a way to get the batch file to set winlogon and smss.exe to have priority=low. I tried those commands but it still doesn't come up and I have to do it manually,which means I always need to keep reopening my process explorer.
I still think I want to play with the affinity settings again, (the system affinity may be best with one processor) but it's getting hard to tell which is correct now that everything sounds so good.
Great. Now try '/timeres=9800' - this is important and very beneficial. Next version of paper is nearing completion and I'm hoping to get it out in a week or 2. All of this is explained and more.
See link for setting winlogon and smss. Commands (see rem #2 of ?.bat) first set them to low priority, then CPU 0 and finally suspends them. I'm using these and have no problems.
I'm not keen on cheaters - lifting grounds is dangerous. Instead, my baseline AC filter provides a legal way to filter ground. Try installing a saparate ground for your audio.
Intel released new processors (E2140 & E2160) under its Pentium brand. These are lower spec Core 2 Duo's. E2140 impresses most with underclocking down to 1.2GHz and Vcc (processor core voltage) at 1.162v. Compared to E6300 which underclocks to 1.6GHz and Vcc is at 1.13v. Above idle power consumption graph by Hot Hardware, there's significant reduction in power (13 watts) between E2140 & E6300 - note these processors drop to lowest power state when idling but this feature was disabled in Hot Hardware's test. Reduced RF radiation (from much lower clock speeds: CPU 1.2GHz vs 1.6GHz; FSB 800MHz vs 1066MHz; Memory 200MHz vs 266MHz) is excellent.Priced at ~5 CDs, this processor gives profound sound improvements. During playback, CPU load increases (expectedly) but remains under 15% with RME soundcard. Vcc remains at lowest setting with 1.2GHz clock speed throughout - this means CPU power consumption is close to that of idle state. Sound improves across the board - the level of sonic purity will shock you!
Installation:
1. Don't use supplied CPU fan - Intel changed these to use more power (as base plate is replaced from copper to aluminum). Best result is with no CPU fan - so far only Zalman TNN-300 case allows for this. Use original copper based Core 2 Duo CPU fan (label should indicate 0.2A vs new ones at 0.6A). Alternatively, use Thermaltake's Golden Orb II (www.thermaltake.com/product/cooler/retail/cl-p0220/cl-p0220.asp) fan which at 5v consumes 1.56 watts (vs 1 watt on Intel copper fan or 3 watts on aluminum).
2. Although this processor works on most Core 2 Duo mobos, its best to get latest BIOS update. On recommended Biostar mobo (P4M890M7-PCI E), BIOS must be updated to latest version which you'll find at www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/mb/bios.php?S_ID=158 (use .bf version). BIOS is updated from Windows using supplied WinFlash utlity that comes with mobo (refer to CD). WinFlash allows for BIOS backups - its a good idea to save your original mobo BIOS.
3. After updating BIOS, reboot and access BIOS menu. Perform 'Load optimized defaults' and thereafter reapply all BIOS optimizations.
4. New BIOS optimization: This version gives access to AGP speed - reduce to 4x (default is 8x).
5. Set system memory speed to 200MHz (Performance Booster Zone > DRAM Clock/Drive Control > DRAM Clock).
6. Save and Exit BIOS. System reboots normally. Check using mobo sw utility, Vcc (1.16v) and CPU temp (~28C). Temp drops by ~10C over E6300! Note if you haven't updated BIOS, temp readings are junk (something like 255C). With CPU Z, you can also confirm Memory speed at 200MHz.
This gives best results in my setup. CPU clock maintains 1.2GHz (with very brief jumps to 1.6GHz) and Vcc is higher.
I hope you are updating your pdf every few months. Whenever I get my life in order, I'd like to put together this new pc. Good thing I waited for a better processor to be released. I't seems like the case and power supply are more expensive than the pc/mobo though. :)
Seems like CPUs have a burn-in process too!
These things are getting cheaper and better. Try XG Magnum 500W PSU or alternatively, Zalman's TNN-300 case (so far this is the only way to get rid of CPU fan).
There's 2 more changes before I'll do an update on pdf doc. Unfortunately this depends on external parties and may take some time.
Refer to section 4.5.c and set ‘EnablePrefetcher’ value to 0 (previous was 2).
Refer to section 4.2. Goto Windows Components Wizard as shown above. Note ‘Details’ button. This allows subcomponents to be removed.
Uncheck all items.
Select Accessories and Utilities > Details BUTTON. Only check first 2 items.
Refer to section 4.6.i of paper. Change settings as above.
Discussion under change #4 introduces autoruns utility. It’s very useful and very dangerous. Download program and extract. Simply double-click ‘autoruns.exe’.
After some testing and having to rebuild my system twice the following changes (by reply post) work.
I basically screwed myself up. Without have a system backup, I disabled vgasave in device manager and autoruns with my video card disabled. now I can't get any video at all. I've read some threads about how to fix this, but so far my system isn't allowing me to boot to a cd, so that is killing my hopes of recovering so far. All I have to do is type in a command to reset the registry value. I just need something that will let me see what I'm doing or bypass the windows startup, which is when my screen goes blank. Looks like i might be putting together a new pc a lot sooner than I thought.
Just after BIOS initial screens and before Windows splash screen, press F8 a few times. Windows should present a menu on how to startup - choose first option: Safe Mode. Once Windows starts up, it prompts you to continue with Safe Mode - answer Yes. Enable device and reboot.
I'm assuming you still have VGA enabled in BIOS - you should see initial BIOS intialization screens before Windows. If not, VGA in BIOS may be disabled.
Sadly, I tried that already, but safe mode also does not give me any video either. Searches on the web confirmed this is the case.
I also tried output ing the vgasave portion of the registry from another pc to a registry file and tried to boot up and run it on my pc by memorizing the keystrokes to run it off a usb pen drive. Didn't work, but since I can't see it's hard to say if I did it right.
this shows how to fix it:
http://www.ryanlowe.ca/blog/archives/001050_adventures_in_disabling_vgasave.php
but I'm also having trouble getting my pc to boot using the dvd drive first, and that may be becuase I have disabled the ide device in the device manager as well. I don't think that should be required though. i also don't have the windows xp restore or installation cd, so that's the only thing I can think of that would work at this point. I may ask for your recommendation for a reasonably priced pc case and power supply in a week or two if I give up.
Try booting off USB Flash - see link below.
My Dell PC doesn't have a normal CD-ROM Drive. BIOS will not boot of installed DVD ROM Drive. So USB may be a good way to go - but make sure your BIOS allows for this.
Another way is to remove your boot drive and install it into a working PC. PC boots on its normal drive but will recognize second drive which you can access and apply fixes or backup data etc.
oops, tryed in the wrong username last time...
Anyway, I did hook up my boot drive in another pc, but I'm not sure how to edit the registry when it's not the booted hard drive. When I ran autoruns on that hard drive it gave the configuration of the booted drive, so everything was already checked.
I don't know how to change the registry on a secondary drive (not the boot drive).
I don't know if I can get into the device manager either, or whether a registry change alone will fix it.
Plus I have 2 hard drives w/ raid that I boot with, so whatever the solution is, I may have to do it to both separately.
I think the regestry location is:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\VgaSave]
and
"Start"=dword:00000001
This may take a while and I don't want it clogging the thread. I'd do the usb OS change, but I don't know anyone with an XP disk. My dell didn't even come with one.
If you think you can help, email me at texastea006@yahoo.com.
Thats good news - I wouldn't worry about a USB flash drive.
Two options:
1. [safest] What I had in mind is to create a .bat file that you store in startup directory (C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\Startup). This .bat would contain instructions to enable vgasave. Command is 'REG ADD HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\VgaSave /v Start /t REG_DWORD /d 01'
2. [risky - not recommended] Look in ?:\WINDOWS\system32\config - this is where registry data is stored. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM stuff is located in 'system' file. Restore a backup version of 'system' file.
Reinstall boot drive into Dell. On first reboot device sets to enabled but Windows needs a reboot - of course you won't see any of this. But after a few minutes, a second reboot should get you going.
Following the instructions on step one, I created a batch file (I used the command without the single quotations) and added them to the startup directory of each of my two raided boot drives, using another computer to load the drives. Then, with everything back in place, I restarted my media pc. I waited a bit and then rebooted. However, I still lost video during the WIndows XP flash screen. for some reason, the vgasave service still is not starting. I wonder if I have to have the batch file overwrite the entire vgasave area, which includes several lines.
Then I got a copy of the Dell support disk and ran the recovery console.
folowing the instructions form the web, I entered: 'enable vgasave SERVICE_SYSTEM_START'
then it told me the service was already set to that.
now i'm looking on the web for a command to start my display adapter, which is also disabled. I hope that will get me some where.Do you think there is a command I can enter in a batch file from my startup folder that will attempt to start my display adapter?instead of just changing one resistry value? Or maybe load the driver manually?
I think you're using a display card - try removing it and connect directly to mobo vga/dvi.
ok, IT'S FIXED. i was able to use another pc to blindly mimic the keystrokes necessary to enable my display adapter.
My previous attempts to change device manager were not working becuase the last step had a dialog box i was not aware of that asked if I really wanted to enable the device. oops.
once, the video came up, I saw the batch file you helped me build output on the screen, and it was asking me to say yes, that I really wanted to make the registry change for vgasave. so that wouldn't work without that final step.
Anyway, my rear end has been saved, and hopefully I won't change anything else unless I know you or someone else has safely tried it.
Whew!!! Thanks for your help[ though.
Select Print Monitors TAB.
Uncheck all items.
Select Network Providers TAB.
Make sure 'LanmanWorkstation' remains checked. When unchecked, system crashes on reboot and can only be fixed by starting Windows in safe mode.
Under ‘Installed Components’ of Explorer TAB uncheck all items as above.
RAM uses large amounts of power. With Foobar (including latest 0.9.4.3) not doing full file buffering (for .cue files), use lowest possible RAM. 1GB consumes 10-12 watts power. Change to 256MB (saving 7-9 watts). This is a big deal.Only use DDR2 533 RAM which has a clock speed of 266MHz. Lower speed RAMs force Core 2 Duo CPU to perform poorly (reduced cache). Higher speed RAM results in high memory clock speeds causing more RF radiation.
With all other optimizations done, you get ~155MB available RAM. This is good for ‘Track Buffering’ up to 14 minutes – this feature is not supported by Foobar but would be nice. I’ve posted this suggestion on Foobar’s forum (see link) but don’t seem to make any progress. If anyone has a better way to get this feature implemented in next release it would be just perfect!
If you plan to install Windows with this low RAM, in BIOS setup, make sure you set Video RAM to 16MB and disable all BIOS and Video caches. This frees memory allowing for a clean Windows installation.
Hi cics,
thanks for sharing all your work! You are spot on on Foobar 0.9.x not loading tracks to memory when using cue sheets spanning multiple files.
The funny thing is that foobar 0.8.3 does not have that problem (easily checked). May be we can contact foobar developers and suggest a merge of the relevant code.
Best
Giulio
Thanks Giulio,
I've tried making contact with Foobar developers but without success. Also, its very difficult to contact Peter directly.
Just saw your post on Foobar's forum. For me most optimal design is track buffering. This way, you can use 256MB RAM and foobar loads each track into RAM - tracks up to 16 minutes can be easily accommodated. I found RAM (ito size, manufacturer and setup) affects sound quality. This is covered in latest paper (version 0.3).
I actually found matching the RAM clock speed to the FSB yielded the best results. And also reducing latency timings yielded even better results.For example, the computer I'm building is actually intended to be the workhorse (for my graphic design work), but I'm testing different parameters to see what would be optimal if/when I build a dedicated computer audio transport. So, I have the 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo and DDR2 800 RAM. (With the RAM latency timings at 4-4-4-12 and Memory voltage at 2.0) If I change the RAM to DDR2 533 to match the FSB clock of 266 MHz, it is an audible improvement. But the best configuration so far is when I reduce the FSB to 200 MHz (giving my CPU a 1.8GHz speed and lower voltage) and then changing the RAM to DDR2 400 (which allows me to have latency timings of 3-2-2-6 and voltage of 1.8)
I should also mention I play my music from a RAMDisk (so the HDD is not used at all during music play) and I have all buffer settings in foobar at 0 (I feel foobar's buffering messes up the timing/jitter) including 0 buffer in the ASIO settings. And in my soundcard control panel (M-Audio USB Audiophile) I am able to reduce latency all the way down to 512. (I used to listen to it maxed out at 4096 and 512 is much better) If I eliminate the use of SRC in foobar I can drop the latency even lower (with even better results). But I like the sound of 24/96, so I'm experimenting with offline processing by Voxengo r8brain Pro to create 24/96 WAVs (which allows me to eliminate the SRC DSP in foobar and keep lower latency with my M-Audio). Sounds great. Really 3D.
Yes, matching FSB/RAM clock speed is important. Dropping from 266 -> 200 MHz clock speed should mean even less RF radiation. With 266/200, CPU cache reduces from 2MB to 1 MB (I use CPU-Z utility). I'll try 200/200 on my 256MB DDR2 533.With RAMDisk you need at least 1GB RAM which means more power consumption. But this takes away I/O overheads during playback - interesting trade-off. I'll try this as well - do you load each CD manually onto drive? I didn't get any improvements with playing .wav from Foobar's file buffer. Maybe Foobar's buffering is confusing things.
SRC upsampler / soundcard latency - try setting Foobar's buffer to 100ms. What CPU load are you getting during playback?
With CPU-Z I'm still retaining 4MB L2 Cache with FSB & RAM set to 200MHz.I don't get any improvements with foobar's file buffer either. And as far as setting the buffer to 100ms - I should mention I'm using version 0.8.3 with an exe ASIO (dll). So in my ASIO output settings, the buffer option is (0-63). Mine is set to 0.
As for CPU load when playing 24/96, it still only peaks at 3%. It doesn't make sense that CPU load has anything to do with how low I can set my sound device latency.
And if you want to try RAMDisk, I'm using SuperSpeed's version. (See link below) You can download a trial version and decide. You're right though, I'm using 1 GB RAM (I actually bought 4 sticks to use for graphic design work, but obviously using only 1 stick sounds best for audio). I set the RAMDisk to 512MB and yes that means I can only copy 1 CD. It's a tough trade-off, but the improved sound quality sold me.
for the 200/200 configuration?
On latency issue - I had similar problems which was resolved with Foobar buffer set to 100ms. Larger buffers put more load on CPU and could result in premature dispatching to soundcard which requires data realtime. Don't know about Foobar 0.8.Try using SuperCache ii (desktop version) - this gives RAM playback without having to load each CD into RAM when using RAMDisk. I've set it to Read Ahead 1MB (equivalent of 6 seconds) - you get about 40-50 disk accesses per track. I can't tell the difference when entire track is played from RAM vs ReadAhead. No need to have Foobar do any buffering. You need WMI and DCOM Server Process Launcher services running for this setup. It's an improvement over doing standard Windows disk IO even with added services and cache ii running. In your case you could drop RAM from 1GB to 512MB.
I had to increase RAM to 512MB as I couldn't get cache ii to work @ 256MB. Biostar mobo allows lowest RAM clock speed of 266MHz, so couldn't get 200/200 option to work (I suspect this causes L2 cache drop as I can only do 266/200).
I've had an interesting thing happen with my Zalman PSU (it failed) so I switched to Enermax PSU. Now this gives me best results with 256MB RAM and no cahche ii. I'll do a separate post.
Are you guys using the SRC resampler in foobar verison 0.9?
I was using it for the .8 version, but I neer checked to see if it would work in the .9 version or if I had to somehow get a newer version.
I'm sure I'd have to change the buffer settings.
I have my asio settings buffer at its lowest and foobar buffer set to 50,000 Kb or something, and I remember my system needed extra buffering to run SRC. I also remember that it sounded very good, but nowhere near how good it sounds now with all the tweaking done within the last few months. Check my latest affinity post for some more interesting settings to test.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/20187.html
I think this was another significant leap for me.
I have not tried any special memory settings or underclocking or bus speed matching (don't really know how) so i hope I'm not missing to much by just buffering from my sata drive into foobar. I don't have any long pauses that I can tell, and if I remember I think that only happens with asio buffering, but I'm not sure.
I'm using foobar 0.8.3 and have been using SRC with that version. But now I'm hearing better results doing offline processing with Voxengo r8brain Pro to 24/96 WAV files (and eliminating SRC DSP in foobar).As for foobar buffer settings - I leave all those at 0. Lower latency is better. And IMHO foobar buffer mucks it up.
The memory settings/underclocking/bus speed matching was a significant leap for me - sorry to tell you, I think you might be missing out. And playing from RAMDisk instead of HDD was also significant.
You said you "don't really know how". Well, the first step is to get yourself CPU-Z. (see link below) This program will tell you what all your speeds are set at. The next step is to adjust these speeds in your BIOS.
I'm going to continue putting off my curiousity to revisit upsampling until I have the rest of the PC optimizations perfected.
And I'll play with setting the foobar buffer to zero and listen.
My question now has to do wth the fact that my media server is used to play movies as well, and since i still beleive that I don't know what I'm doing when I change bios settings, will my HD abd DVD video watching, web surfing, file downloading, web browsing...performance suffer by underclocking anything..This is my only pc at the moment.
Also, I've had cpu-z, but that's as far as I got.
Core speed=2793 MHz, Multiplier=14, FSB=199.5 MHZ, BUs Speed=798 MHz, Voltage is 3.072, Memory Frequency=266 MHz.
Will my Dell system Bios even let me change anything, and if so, what do I need to change?
It corrupted Windows and other stuff. Its incompatible with SATA RAID and I'm rebuilding transport...
All web sites on Windows services, tells never to Stop WMI (Windows Management Instrumentation) and Event Log (in fact Windows doesn’t offer Stop function for this). Set Startup Type of these services to ‘Manual’ – if needed, Windows will start them. WMI is largely used for gathering driver stats and interferes with audio playback. In my setup, only 2 Windows services are needed: RPC & Plug and Play. Some soundcard drivers will insist on Windows Audio being started (test this) for volume control (which must be set to maximum).Note: To remove/reinstall software (especially soundcard driver), set following services to Automatic and Start them.
1. Event Log
2. Cryptographic Services
3. Windows Audio
4. WMIOnce all installed and stable, Stop services and set to Manual.
It’s a good idea to check if system continues to underclock CPU – reapply Power Option settings (see link below) and reboot. I found Windows in some cases, overrides lowest setting which must be reset.
I always waste several minutes manually stopping all my services each time windows restarts. Can you stop services with batch file commands instead of manually. I'd be worried about the system trying to stop more than one at a time, if that's a problem. After right-clicking and selecting stop..some services take longer to stop (the status bar increments slower). Either that, or I need to figure out which others I can set to manual and are not needed for the first few moments of windows.
No need for a batch file, just set Startup type to Manual and Stop service. After reboot, service should never start - in some cases, services start - I set these to Disable (not many though).
Access BIOS setup Menu. Under ‘Advanced Chipset Features’ select ‘CPU & PCI Bus Control’. Disable:1. PCI Delay Transaction
2. VLink 8x SupportThese changes work best when playing music with Windows reduced to its bare minimum (see link below).
Disabling PCI Delay Transaction deviates from PCI standards but reduces latency.
Disabling VLink 8x reduces bus bandwidth from 533MB/s. This is major overkill for audio as we only need 0.37MB/s for playback and 0.17MB/s for sequential data read. Bus operates at lower clock speed resulting in less RF radiation.
VGA workload shifts to CPU when graphics HW acceleration is set to 'none'. Having Direct Frame Buffer enabled seems to take away BIOS overheads. I get noticeable improvements.
Goto Advanced BIOS Features > Cache Setup. Disable:
1. CPU L3 Cache
2. CPU L2 Cache ECC Checking
L3 cache is not available on CPU.
Disabling ECC Checking gives improvements. If for some insane reason you're overclocking, this setting must remain enabled.
In BIOS goto Performance Booster Zone > DRAM Clock/Drive Control and change 1T CMD Support to Auto (default is Disable).
In CPU Z, Under Memory TAB, field 'Command Rate' changes from 2T to 1T.
I do not have these options in my bios, and I'm sure I'm missing out a lot by using a standard dell motherboard.
However, here are the options that I can change and would like some advice on if modifying them would help:1. Under Performance, I have a n "HDD Acoustic Mode"- this one I've already changed and can hear the difference, but not sure which I like. It is supposed to be for IDE devices, and yes I am planning to leave a dvd drive in my pc for now. Even if I took it out, I'm sure I'd have to set this to something. Here are the descriptions for my choices.
A. Bypass: the default.
B. Quiet: slower, and quiter
C. Suggested: driver manufacturer selects mode.
D. Performance: faster, but noisier.I can enjoy B and D, but it all sounds good now. They do sound very different..B being soft and pretty, and D being louder and maybe more accurate. I have not tried C. Any idea which is optimal, and more importantly, why?
2. Security. Execute Disable Memorpy Protection is set to ON. Will turning it off do anything?
3. Power Management. Suspend Mode set to S3= conserves power when not in use. I assume this is better than the other choice, S1=resumes more quickly from sleep mode.
4. Maintanance: SERR DMI Message Mechanism is set to ON. Will turning this off do anything?
The only other BIOS setting I can see that might help would be to disable my IDE DVD drive, which may come soon.
Just tested this and it has no negative effects on CPU's internal optimizations. You also get more available memory. Can't say if there's a definite sound improvement like PCI changes but does remove some overheads.
I made changes to all four of them and got a HUGE boost in performance.
1. HDD Accoustic mode=Quiet (didn't really try any othe other settings)
2. SERR DMI Message =OFF
3. Power management mode set to S1 (this was significant.)
4. Execute Disable Memory Protection Technology=OFFI will play with turning off my onboard Network Adapter and IDE dvd drive in bios, and I'm afraid to see another huge improvement. maybe I finally need to by a new pc. basically, bios changes should not be overlooked.
Mike,1. HDD Acoustic Mode: This is the first time I've seen such an option. No idea which would be best, but I would guess B as drive runs slower meaning less power and vibrations.
2. I have this Enabled (default). I found any CPU BIOS changes didn't help (CPU's internal optimizations work best with mobo defaults).
3. I have mine on S1 - haven't tried S3. I'm not sure how this would help sound as it relates to how computer maintains suspend state. Will test it though.
4. Never seen that option - definitely try OFF.
Why don't you try the Biostar mobo - its $55. This way, you can disable Spread Spectrum which gives good improvements. All other parts should connect to this mobo. You need DDR2 400/533 RAM.
Off subject, did you compare the qp noise disruptor and shakti stones at all? It wasn't until I installed four stones in my audio rig before I was able to really discern which explorer changes were improvements. I have one stone SNUGLY between my RME sound card and pci-e video card. I also have audio magic power conditioners without noise disrupters in them, although the manufacturer is selling an upgrade to install them in his conditioners. I haven't done that, but am using two stones around my conditioners. He says the qp devices are better than the stones, so have you compared them and can you quantify the difference?
Any experience with "Quantum symphony" brand devices either?
Mike
With Columns UI, above default UI (foo_ui_std.dll) is not needed. Delete this file from C:\Program Files\foobar2000\components directory. When you start Foobar, answer 'No' to save settings for this component.This way, there is no chance of any Foobar / Windows Explorer interaction.
I thought I was out of ideas, but I remembered a few more things I did while listenening to the last version of foobar...
You can continue to remove other dlls from the foobar componenets folder and you should hear an improvement. So far I started with the largest converter.dll and rgscan.dll and will continue later with as many more as I can that will allow foobar to still operate as I like.
Please confirm.
Mike
Yes this improves sound. I only have 5 .dlls' in my components directory: foo_dsp_src9, foo_input_std, foo_out_asio, foo_ui_columns & foo_uie_albumlist
.
Thanks to texastea006 (Mike) for sharing experience on Windows Explorer settings. If you change settings in Folder options or Task bar properties, this affects sound quality. Windows Explorer (desktop user interface) must not be confused with Internet Explorer as these are separate things. Windows Explorer is a nasty piece of work which consumes memory (10MB-60MB+) and randomly performs tasks. It interferes with running tasks / progams and files being accessed. Hence it affects sound quality.Solution is to bypass Explorer through stopping Explorer and only running Foobar. After exiting Foobar, Explorer is restarted. Steps:
1. Separate Foobar from Explorer. Foobar > Preferences > Display > Columns UI > Status bar/Systray TAB > Uncheck all items in 'System notification area'
2. Detune Windows Explorer UI.
Control Panel > Folder Options > View TAB > Uncheck as many items (leave 'Use simple file sharing' checked).
Right-click on Start > Properties > Start Menu TAB > Customize > Advanced TAB > Uncheck and Disable as many 'Start menu items' you can (key things needed are Control Panel, Run and My Computer).3. Download 'Process' utility from link below (freeware). Zip file contains a small (25k) program called process.exe which you must extract to c:\ (your root directory). This program allows access to windows tasks where you can stop, suspend… processes as seen in Task Manager's Processes TAB.
4. Create a ?.bat file and save to your Desktop using Notepad. I call mine 'cicsStart.bat'. Copy following commands into this file:
@echo off
rem Kill Windows UI
start /wait c:\process.exe -k explorer.exerem Start Foobar2000 in realtime (%1 allows playing .wav files from File Explorer)
start /wait /REALTIME c:\progra~1\foobar2000\foobar2000.exe %1rem Start Windows UI after exiting Foobar2000
start /wait /B c:\windows\explorer.exe5. Start Task Manager (under Options, make sure 'Always on top' is checked). Goto Processes TAB and locate explorer.exe. Take note of memory consumed and CPU activity.
6. Run cicsStart.bat (or other name you have chosen) by double-clicking file on your Desktop. Process explorer.exe in Task Manager should disappear and foobar2000.exe & cmd.exe should appear. Also note all memory consumed by explorer.exe is now available (under Performance TAB). You can copy this .bat file in your Startup directory instead of the Foobar shortcut. This way, computer boots up directly with Foobar without any interference from Explorer.
7. Test sound quality. There should be a nice improvement.
Note you could choose to replace default Windows Explorer UI with other 3rd party versions but I prefer not having any UI present when playing music (most optimal option).
Yes, that does sound noticably cleaner.
Now I have one more secret I've been saving to share, but I don't know if it can be safely used. See the following link:
http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/archive/2005/07/24/running-windows-with-no-services.aspx
I saved this after reading it long ago, hoping I could use it in the future, but someone else has to figure out how it can be done safely because I'm new to batch files:Basicaly, you can kill Smss.exe first and then winlogon.exe (which includes all your services) using that Process Explorer program (or batch file, I assume).
I used to do this frequently, and heard a nice improvement, but the catch is that you are forced to turn off your computer with the power button since windows can't function properly anymore.
If there was a way to use a batch file to restart those processes or services in the way you just showed us how to restart explorer, it would be real cool. That way when running foobar you could temporarily disable almost everything else that uses memory.
Trying this should not damage your pc, but some are not comfortable with doing a hard reboot, so proceed at your own risk. It's fun to at least and see how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Let me know if this is feasible.
Very interesting – more air & blacker backgrounds!My Audigy 2 ZS Platinum (with kX driver) yields more improvements than my RME HDSP 9652. RME still edges out Audigy by a small margin. RME card has very latest software (firmware and driver @ version 3.02 March 2007). This RME software update gives better playback results (latency via ASIO/RME down to 0.32ms vs kX @ 0.25ms using Kernal Streaming/Audigy).
I’m posting 2 solutions (reply post to this) on how to automate this. Summary:
1. Can’t terminate all services as you get no playback from Foobar. Some Windows services are critical
2. Option 2 offers more aggressive culling of Windows
3. Must shutdown computer by pressing power button 4-5 seconds – force shutdown
4. Both options attempt to recover Windows UI after exiting Foobar – depending on soundcard, option 2 may not give Windows UI
5. Preference is to select option that gives Windows UI after exiting Foobar – in my case, only option 1 works for both cards
6. Not much sound difference between options even with option 2 being more aggressive
7. Don’t run .bat file at startup – rather double-click from Desktop until right option is chosen
8. Any changes made on desktop is not saved after exiting Foobar (as proper Shutdown doesn’t happen). On startup and before running .bat file, do necessary changes and reboot to save Desktop UI changes
9. Both options start Windows Task Manager (at lower priority). Very useful to see Windows processes being eliminated & memory freed. For information only – exit Task Manager at any time.
Another process utility (pskill.exe) is needed to kill process and its dependencies. Instructions copied into .bat file has ‘[YOUR SOUNDCARD PROCESS]’ – put your soundcard’s process here (e.g. kX = kxmixer.exe and RME = hdsp32.exe). Also remove ‘rem ’ prefix. Next instruction kills RME’s mixer process (if ‘rem ’ prefix removed).1. Download PSTools.zip from link below
2. Open zip file and copy pskill.exe (183KB) to c:\ (root directory)
3. Run pskill.exe (double-click on it) to do away with license agreement confirmation
4. Edit .bat file and clear all contents
5. Copy following instructions into .bat file
@echo off
rem # Kill Windows UI
start /wait c:\process.exe -k explorer.exerem # Start Task Manager
start C:\WINDOWS\system32\taskmgr.exerem # Kill Windows & VTTimer.exe (for Biostar mobo using VIA chipset)
start /wait c:\process.exe -k VTTimer.exe
start /wait c:\process.exe -k smss.exe
start /wait c:\process.exe -k winlogon.exe
start /wait c:\pskill.exe -t lsass.exe
start /wait c:\pskill.exe -t svchost.exerem # Adjust priorities, eg. High, RealTime, BelowNormal, Low
start /wait c:\process.exe -p taskmgr.exe Normal
rem start /wait c:\process.exe -p [YOUR SOUNDCARD PROCESS] AboveNormal
rem start /wait c:\process.exe -k hdspmix.exerem # Start Foobar
start /wait /REALTIME c:\progra~1\foobar2000\foobar2000.exerem # Start UI after Foobar
start /wait /B c:\windows\explorer.exe6. Test by double-clicking .bat file
I wanted more of Windows culled without loosing Windows Explorer UI (after exiting Foobar) and came up with this solution. Explorer is suspended (that way all its inference stops) and resumed after Foobar is exited. This will work with all soundcard drivers. By suspending Explorer, no CPU resources are consumed but unfortunately, memory remains allocated to Explorer.I get best results using this option.
Please don’t minimize Foobar – you MUST exit to get back to Explorer. Once application is minimized, it cannot be restored (as explorer is suspended).
Under step 5 (of option 2), use these instructions:
@echo off
rem # Suspend Windows UI
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -s explorer.exerem # Start Task Manager
start /b C:\WINDOWS\system32\taskmgr.exerem # Kill Windows & VTTimer.exe (for Biostar mobo using VIA chipset)
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -k VTTimer.exe
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -k smss.exe
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -k winlogon.exe
start /b /wait c:\pskill.exe -t lsass.exe
start /b /wait c:\pskill.exe -t svchost.exerem # Adjust priorities, eg. High, RealTime, BelowNormal, Low
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p taskmgr.exe Normal
rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p [YOUR SOUNDCARD PROCESS] AboveNormal
rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -k hdspmix.exerem # Start Foobar
start /wait /REALTIME c:\progra~1\foobar2000\foobar2000.exerem # Resume Windows UI
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -r explorer.exe
This solution revises 'Signature Edition' and has no side effects! This means you can do a normal shutdown after Foobar or whatever else.Explorer is killed and started (before and after Foobar). Windows stuff is suspended & resumed. This will work with all soundcard drivers. By killing Explorer, memory is freed. Further improvement in sound is gained.
Other changes include:
1. Under rem #1 (remark #1) provision for Process Explorer - default starts Task Manager but if you prefer Process Explorer then copy procexp.exe file to c:\ and remove 'rem ' prefix from procexp.exe line. Also add 'rem ' prefix to rem #1 & #4 taskmgr.exe lines.
2. Don't need to use pskill.exe utility
3. Under rem #4, as before, you can change your soundcard driver setup utility priority. For RME, the mixer can also be killed. For Biostar mobo, VTTimer.exe can be killed. These are done by removing 'rem ' prefix in appropriate line
Under step 5 (of option 2), use these instructions:
@echo off
rem #1 Start Task Manager
start /b C:\WINDOWS\system32\taskmgr.exe
rem start /b c:\procexp.exe /p:nrem #2 Kill UI
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -k explorer.exerem #3 Suspend Windows
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -s smss.exe
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -s winlogon.exerem #4 Adjust priorities, eg. High, RealTime, BelowNormal, Low;
rem # and do housekeeping (other cleanups)
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p taskmgr.exe Normal
rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p [YOUR SOUNDCARD PROCESS] AboveNormal
rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -k hdspmix.exe
rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -k VTTimer.exerem #5 Start Foobar2000
start /wait /REALTIME c:\progra~1\foobar2000\foobar2000.exerem #6 Resume Windows & Start UI
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -r winlogon.exe
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -r smss.exe
start /b c:\windows\explorer.exe
Noticed good sound improvements with this!In addition, I'm still experimenting with changing affinity. I can definitely hear a difference, but can't decide which sounds more accurate.
Ed,
See my latest reply to this post and try my setitings:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/20187.html
don't forget to run process explorer by system internals (free) or some other program so you can change the settings for the cmd.exe which starts once the batch file has been executed.
Let me know if the changes are positive.
Only need Process Utility (process.exe) as per change item 6. Instructions copied into .bat file has ‘[YOUR SOUNDCARD PROCESS]’ – put your soundcard’s process here (e.g. kX = kxmixer.exe and RME = hdsp32.exe). Also remove ‘rem ’ prefix. Next instruction kills RME’s mixer process (if ‘rem ’ prefix removed).1. Edit .bat file and clear all contents
2. Copy following instructions into .bat file
@echo off
rem # Kill Windows UI
start /wait c:\process.exe -k explorer.exerem # Start Task Manager
start C:\WINDOWS\system32\taskmgr.exerem # Kill Windows & VTTimer.exe (for Biostar mobo using VIA chipset)
start /wait c:\process.exe -k VTTimer.exe
start /wait c:\process.exe -k smss.exe
start /wait c:\process.exe -k winlogon.exerem # Adjust priorities, eg. High, RealTime, BelowNormal, Low
start /wait c:\process.exe -p taskmgr.exe Normal
rem start /wait c:\process.exe -p [YOUR SOUNDCARD PROCESS] AboveNormal
rem start /wait c:\process.exe -k hdspmix.exerem # Start Foobar
start /wait /REALTIME c:\progra~1\foobar2000\foobar2000.exerem # Start UI after Foobar
start /wait /B c:\windows\explorer.exe
3. Test by double-clicking .bat file
First, I need to ask (unrelated again).. my computer only has usb connections for mouse and keyboard (no serial), so I have not turned off usb connections in the bios. Will that disable my usb connections permenantly? Can I still use my usb input devices in the bios? in windows? if I disable it in the bios?
Lastly, I have not had a chance to try these options, although I have no doubt that the improvements will be significant. I can remember when I killed all those processes how good it sounded, and I will create the batch files as soon as I am ready to let the pc sit for a long time without needing to reboot.
I don't have any more ideas, so as far as I'm concerned, this is just about the final frontier as far as tweaking windows goes. I will include all of these changes when I have a dedicated media pc, and will keep an eye out here for any other additions.
Are you updating your pdf file with all of these additions and is that available for download?
USB BIOS: Yes it would disable USB connections (haven't tested though). So don't disable USB in BIOS. I also use USB wireless mouse. I have EHCI disabled but USB Controller is enabled.QP Noise Disruptor & Shakti Stones: Never tested stones. On QP Disruptor, after installing Zalman TNN-300 case, I found it congested the sound. After each improvement, I retest and so far, its best without the Disruptor. I would definitely try to remove PCIe graphics card. An option would be to output XGA/SXGA via mobo video to DVDO's VP30 or VP50 - its an external video processor with brilliant picture quality.
Change 6 (Bypass Windows Explorer): I found a way to prevent force shutdown of Windows. I'll post a revision to Option 2's (Signature Edition). It works very well and you can run it during Startup. After exiting Foobar, Windows and Explorer is fully available. This .bat file can be started as many times and there should be no Windows problems.
Update PDF version 0.1: I've posted a change on Foobar forum for .cue file playback bug where no full file buffering occurs. So I'm going to wait for next Foobar release before I release version 0.2. They have released 0.9.4.3 which still has the bug.
Control Panel > System > Advanced TAB > Settings BUTTON under Performance > Advanced TAB > Select System Cache under 'Memory usage'Above helps with storing entire .wav files into RAM and reduces need to have Foobar perform full file buffering (which doesn't work for .cue files).
.
Control Panel > System > Hardware TAB > Device Manager BUTTON > View MENU > Check ‘Show hidden devices’
With ‘Show hidden devices’ checked, much can be disabled. I’ve summarized by reply post all devices to be disabled including those noted previously.
Select View > ‘Devices by connection’ in Device Manager. Goto ACPI > Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System > PCI Bus. Compare with above after disabling devices.
PCI-PCI Bridge controllers are disabled as I don’t use any PCI Express interfaces. If using PCI-E graphics card, one of these must remain enabled.
On some mobos, you can also disable ‘PCI-ISA bridge’ and / or ‘ISAPNP’. On right-click, menu gives ‘Disable’ option. In my case, right-click menu only offers ‘Uninstall’. In this case device can be uninstalled which immediately reinstalls on reboot.
This applies to no Network stuff being used. Items ‘ViaIde & Standard IDE/ESDI Hard Disk Controller’ should NOT be disabled if using standard IDE or SATA interface. ‘ViaIde’ is specific to VIA mobo chipset. I’m able to safely disable these as I use SATA RAID 0.
Only do this if you don’t use any Networking functions.
This will require a reset of your video to 16 bit color, no video acceleration and uncheck ‘enable write combining’. Also make sure output resolution is set to native / default display resolution. Most new displays are either 1024 x 768 or 1280 x 1024.
Device Manager > Select 'Show hidden devices' under View menu > Expand 'Non-Plug and Play Devices'. Note use 'View devices by type' - the default view.Scan list and disable (right-click on item):
1. Beep
2. Serial (if it exists)I get a blacker background with this.
Good catch finding the expand 'Non-Plug and Play Devices'. There are several more devices now that I think can be disabled, and I am still experimenting.
I almost wish we could just run foobar with ms-dos since all these windows drivers loaded just add more grunge. I think we could also use another SYsinternals program called Autoruns to disect and disable everything loading..it's easy to see everything at least.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Security/Autoruns.mspx
i only used it to make sure I didn't have any spyware running at first.
Anyway, I also disabled all the audio codecs that are launched, which I hadn't done before. I think that helped.
Play at your own risk concerning the newly exposed devices, but I disabled FIPS, Remote access stuff, extra devices that appeared under network adapters, and terminal services for keyboard and mouse. The network stuff will prevent your network card from working. If you don't cae about that you can also disable IPSEC.s good as these improvements are, I know the rest of my system can't take full advantage of high quality the transport is now. Extra power conditioning improvements could really help at this point, not to mention equipment upgrades.
I would like to disable kmixer and the others, but since I watch movies on the same pc, it locks up when some of these drivers are not loaded. Otherwise, I'd love to prevent them from coming up. Still, I'm glad you found this autoruns helpful; it's cool for what it does. Was there an audible benefit, or just a happy feeling knowing those drivers weren't running.
I've been busy, but I'd still like to:
1. Upgrade from factory dell power supply, hopefully a fanless or quieter solution, since it is still audible from my listening position. Any ideas to power 4 sata hard drives, nvidea pci-e video card, rme sound card without audible or dc noise?
2. try to experiment with underclocking/voltage modifications.
3. experiment with RAMDisk.
4. See what other hidden device manager devices I can disable/or disable with autoruns.
There are always more improvmeents to be made, so I'm sure further poking around will reveal some more. Good stuff lately, though!
I'll do a separate post on Autoruns as there is definite benefit in other areas.
In Drivers TAB, you can disable many Windows audio components - just uncheck items. So far, I have these 6 disabled:
1. aec (acoustics echo canceler)
2. DMusic (synthesizer)
3. drmkaud (descrambler)
4. kmixer (as last!)
5. redbook (filter)
6. splitter
There's also usbaudio (which I don't have installed on my transport). I only have sysaudio enabled for WDM drivers (and don't know if theres other audio components).
Under Explorer, 'Installed Components', its set as per picture.
If you plan to reinstall soundcard driver or make changes to Windows Sounds, etc. all these drivers must enabled and system rebooted. Otherwise, will get unpredictable results.
.
.
.
| ||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
