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In Reply to: RE: RCA LC1As - value? posted by Vril Disc on August 24, 2007 at 15:58:56
My jesting post below suggesting a value of $100 for the pair of LC1A's notwithstanding, I think it's a little misleading to suggest that these speakers are either common or inexpensive. I have collected these (and other quality vintage speakers) for many years, and have seen the prices go from ridiculously low ($24, in original cabinet) to stratospheric (over $10k/pair in mint 'furnace' style cabinets). I believe these are one of the finest sounding speakers ever produced, and they are starting to get their due respect. However, not all RCA 'duo-cone' speakers are created equal, which may be where the widely varying reports of sale price originate.
A little history: the first 'duo-cone' speakers were called the MI-11411 (no 'A') and did not have the seven 'camel bumps' on the cone, nor did they have the 'butterfly' deflector on the tweeter. They were available from RCA in either the 'furnace' style cabinet (in gray or walnut) or the wall wedge style that mounted on the wall/ceiling above the mixing board in the control room. These are the speakers, in walnut 'furnace' style cabinets, that MonkeyPunch was asking about. They are the rarest and probably the most valuable of the lot. If you bought mint pairs of these, in those cabinets (also mint) for $1,000 or $1,200, you got a deal (and I'd love to see pictures!)
The second iteration was the LC-1A, with the aformentioned 'camel bumps' and tweeter deflector. Again available in wall wedge cabinets, as well as the SC-15 style home furniture cabinet. However, they are not without problems. I have seen many 'mint' drivers that were near to useless. First, the rolled paper surround is prone to fatigue cracks and failure. If an LC-1A has a fatigued surround, it's not 'mint', it's on its way out. You can treat it with varying remedies, but it's a band-aid at best. Also, the early tweeters were very fragile and prone to failure. Many didn't survive the solid-state, high power era. Lesser problems include pushed in 'camel bumps' and dirty or misaligned voice coil/gaps. These latter problems can usually be fixed. However, I know of no source for new woofer or tweeter cones for these speakers (if you do, PLEASE let me in on it). I have seen people scratch build surrounds in order to save a pair of these apeakers, though. The reason people go to so much trouble is that these are arguably the best sounding of all 'duo-cone' RCA's. Also the most fragile--caveat emptor.
Next were the LC-1B and LC-1C. The 'B' is an LC-1A with a different surround. I've never had a 'C', but I'm told by reputable sources that they did not have an Alnico magnet. Most of these came in a tall, chamfered-front cabinet, or the wall wedge, or the SC-15 style, though they do show up in Karlsons and some home built cabinets too. They hold up better than the 'A' due to the treated accordian surrounds and new tweeters, but they don't sound as good IMHO. Bargain hunters wanting to try the 'duo-cone' sound should start here. The prices quoted by Vril Disc above are in line with what you could expect to pay for nice 'B' or 'C' versions in original cabinets.
While I agree that the 'duo-cone' family WERE relatively common, having been produced from the late 1940's through the 1950's, I don't think they're so common today. I have pulled these out of projection rooms, radio stations, and recording studios, among other places. Most in wall wedge cabinets. Though they were produced en masse, many did not survive (for the reasons noted above). Many of the rest are in happy homes of collectors or listeners. Like the original Quad electrostatic, these seem to stay in listening rooms for a very long time compared to most speakers. All these factors tend to make them a little difficult for most enthusiasts to find. Rare plus desirable usually equals expensive, which is just what's happening to LC-1A's.
Follow Ups:
I'm a new member, and I'm looking for a source of one or two replacement tweeters for the RCA LC1A loudspeaker. I own four in original mahogany veneered cabinets and one has a blown tweeter. The working units sound fine, two of which I have been using continuously for 12 years. The other two were in storage until recently when I discoved the one defective tweeter. I haven't checked its HF capacitor or associated wiring, each of which could be defective, but I doubt that's the problem. Does anyone have suggestions for tweeter replacement and/or repair?
Many thanks, Larry
The C version was engineered by Hans Dietze, and had higher power handling than the other versions. It was the most expensive to make (for RCA) and had the lowest production run (by far.) Harry Olson once congratulated Hans on making the best version of his original design, for whatever you take that to be worth. The C version is alnico.
I have a pair of Olson designed cabinets with a MI 11411 in one enclosure, and an LC1C in the other. If anyone would like to come and make a wager that they can a) tell the difference, and b)guess which is which, I would love to take them up on that.
I cannot hear a difference between the two drivers, running side by side.
My recommendation to anyone looking for these would be to get whatever is in good condition, and not worry about which iteration they have acquired.
Jonathan
Thanks for the updated info on the LC-1C. The low production numbers suggested explain why I've found so few of them.
Not sure I can take you up on your offer of a side by side comparison, though I don't doubt your conclusions. My experience with a 'B' versus 'A' showed the 'A' to sound better and to have slightly higher output. This was a single case, however, and there may have been other factors at work.
I agree wholeheartedly that anyone looking for these should get whatever they can find in good condition. Good condition being the key.
I'm not sure how many of them there are out there, though I stick by my original point that they are far from common. Though not as rare as, say, a Western Electric 757A, good LC-1A's of any iteration are far harder to find than 755A's, for instance. Of course, all of the above are pretty rare speakers. My other point--that not all Duo-cones are created equal, and thus the big variation in price--is also still valid. A mint original MI-11411 in original walnut furnace cabinet is going to go for orders of magnitude more than an LC-1A with a bad surround in a beat up 'wall wedge' cabinet. The lesson for potential buyers is: not all Duo-Cones are treasure. Look carefully at the condition before plunking down cash. To the best of my knowledge, no repair parts are available.
BTW Jonathan, as one of the few other people out there actually listening to these speakers, you may be interested to hear that I bought a pair of the 'furnace' deco style cabinets out of a storage unit this weekend. They need a little work, but are totally restorable. Hope to have them up and going in a few weeks. Now that I have the originals in hand, I'm thinking of commissioning a local woodworker to repro them in nice hardwood. If you or anyone you know might be interested in spreading the costs (probably less expensiver per unit if I get more made) let me know.
Steve
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