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In Reply to: RE: Bill, thanks, that was part of the answer I was looking for. posted by Dan_ed on August 06, 2007 at 10:49:52
Missing detail is far more likely to be a problem in the mids than the HF, and I'd still be looking at the crossover as the culprit, especially if second order. Check the driver polarities, you may have a phase response notch. Time mis-align between the HF and mids is a possibility too. Or both the above.
Follow Ups:
First order xover. The 2441's are run with the polarity reversed. I believe it is a 40 uF GE oil cap in the mid.
definitely look around for an impedance graph of the 2441... i'd bet you're stressing that diaphragm pretty hard with a 40uF cap, because chances are good it's not running at nominal impedance down at 500 hz too (which i'm betting is your theoretical crossover point).
are the mids sounding particularly grating and forward? if so-- you're probably overlapping like mad with your woofer, and you're suffering major cancellations and wierdness- not to mention distortion!
d.
However, the mid is padded down ~6db. Most info I can find says 500 Hz is the low cut-off. Not that it couldn't be better! :)
hey dan-
don't always sweat 'what most info' says- due to the internet, there's a TON of misinformation out there--- getting horns to sound remotely human is practically a 'by feel' pursuit-- nice measuring tools are great demystifiers, but also present their own problem negotiation set.. 'cause you have to learn not to be tricked by what you're measuring! not to say it's not worth learning, mind you.. but a minimal investment in that'll save you a lotta money in time and caps, resistors, and coils..
it took me almost 2 years to get a decent result out of my horns.. which almost killed me, and i swear i almost gave up multiple times out of frustration. but: rules that made a big difference-
1)run your horns at least an octave above their cutoff.
2) with first most crossovers-- it pays to leave a gap between drivers in your knee points.. it's easier working back to 'good' with smaller caps than needing to rebuild the entire thing.. you'll notice a gap in the middle is a lot less grating than overlap.
3) use oil caps rated at 100v...200 at most. don't overrate 'em.. it sounds horrible by comparison! films work ok.. but they're mostly good for prototyping 'cause they're cheap.
4) buy 2 lpads. don't calculate static ones until you're SURE you're dead nuts.. its another calculation you're SURE to get wrong.. and it pays to mess around to verify your calculations by ear.
don't let yourself get discouraged.. horns really are a tough nut to crack-- but being diligent pays off in spades!
best of luck!
d
Hi
I second what you've said. I cross my 2441s in at 800Hz. If I move to a four way system (with a 2123 covering the mids) I would actually cross the 2441s in at 1.2kHz.
I spent ages (not quite two years!) tweaking my horns as well. They now sound superb, but the slightest deviation from the levels and XO points I now use results in a massive degradation of the sound.
I have no experience with first order passive XOs as I use 2nd order PPLXOs which I am ecstatic about.
Cheers. Doug
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