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Re: I'll just state this directly...

Posted by Chris from Lafayette (A) on April 10, 2007 at 19:28:42

In Reply to: I'll just state this directly... posted by SE on April 10, 2007 at 15:37:20:

I'll just say that Classical music fans such as yourself are the reason the art form is dying. Take whatever satisfaction you will from that.

Well, I'm not sure I agree that the art form is dying, but let's agree for the moment that it is, just for the sake of argument. Don't you think it's far more likely that its death would be hastened more by fragmentation of its audience than by failure to abandon the core repertoire in favor of new music? Just look at Mr. Thornhill's comments from below:

most 20th century music fails to draw an adequate crowd. I've observed a most striking incident of this two years with a Philadelphia Orchestra program that had the Dvorak Cello concerto before the intermission and Zemlinsky's Die Seejungfrau afterwards. Easily 20% of the audience did not return to hear the Zemlinsky. If people are not going to listen to it, why play it?

Now, I like Zemlinsky just fine, but I think it's clear from this post what's driving out the audience (and it's not the Dvorak Cello Concerto!). And the audience's reaction, I contend, is understandable, having been conditioned by years and years (maybe even decades and decades) of being browbeaten by contemporary composers' new works. In a way, it's funny, because I'm sure a large portion of the folks who left the concert would actually have enjoyed the Zemlinsky - since it's not really NEW music, but merely UNFAMILIAR music. I'm going off on a tangent here, but I recall a survey by the National Symphony Orchestra some years ago, where they asked their audience what music they would like to hear on the orchestra's concerts. By far the largest response was that listeners wanted to hear unfamiliar music by familiar composers!

Back to your comments:

Regarding recordings, are you still buying new recordings of standard works?

Yup - that's probably 90% of what I buy.

Based on the 1958 reference, I'm assuming you're at least in your 49 (years since then) plus, what 12 (age)...60 years old at least.

I wish - then I'd be closer to retirement! :-) No, I was just quoting Babbitt's article from an anthology I have.

I'm somewhat younger than you and I've got EVERYTHING I enjoy in crisp new recordings...PLUS gobs of the historic stuff: I am TOTALLY saturated.

Perhaps one reason you're saturated and I'm not is that there are a large number of my CD's I've listened to only once or twice. Also, one makes conscious choices of what to focus one's listening on: I'm certainly less focused on pre-stereo historical recordings that a lot of other posters on this forum are.

Knowing that you can't possibly have enough time to "listen to it all", I'm assuming that you've ABANDONED many of your older recordings in favor of newer ones (i.e., you just don't -- and will never, as a matter of hours in the day -- listen to them again).

Yes, that's true - some CD's are listened to only once, almost as if you'd be hearing the performance at a concert. It doesn't bother me to listen to some CD's just once, especially if the CD is disappointing for one reason or another - I'll just bring it down to a used CD store and get store credit for it.

Someone that goes out right now and buys an SACD of, say, Vanska conducting the Beethoven 9th (or whatever) has in there hands a sound recording that is about as good as human ears need.

I don't agree with you on this point. I like Vänskä's CD of the 4th and 5th. (I haven't heard the 9th yet.) But why do you want to cap engineering progress? I have no doubt that better engineering will come along, and when this superior engineering arrives, I'm going to need it! :-) Besides, although you and I like the sound quality on these Vänskä recordings, some listeners/posters don't like it (for various reasons).

life's too short to continue to throw money after the same work over and over again.

When I stop seeking new intellectual experience (and the tweaking of the texture or pace of a piece I've got 20 recordings of is hardly what I'm speaking of), I'll declare myself as no longer being interested in the very reason I enjoy this hobby.

I guess it comes down to this: I find that the differences in sound quality and interpretation in a known work can be quite substantial (I wouldn't describe these differences as the mere tweaking of texture or pace) and that listening for these differences is not only enjoyable in its own right but also contributes to an understanding the work itself. Think of the simplest work you can imagine - say, Chopin's A-major Prelude. Sure it's simple, but the possibilities for interpretation are infinite! Add to that the variety of sound quality you encounter on various recordings, and there are even more facets to the work (beyond infinite! - I'm joking here, but you get my drift). We had friends over some years ago, and played them two recordings of one of the Chopin Preludes (I forget which one). It turned out these performances were by the same pianist (Moravec), but they produced such different effects that our friends could not even believe that it was the same pianist in the two recordings!

you are content with what you have.

Never! :-)

I truly believe that extending that contentment outward into the realm of Classical music as a reason for it NOT TO GROW is just not right.

You know, I don't think we're as far apart as it may have seemed originally. Your point is that a balance needs to be struck and that new music needs to be encouraged. I don't disagree. I perhaps misunderstood your original post, where, it seemed to me, you were advocating that a new conductor ought to jettison the standard repertoire in favor of new music. Since you wrote about balancing the needs of extending the repertoire with new works and generating new insights into existing works (not in so many words, but I think that was your gist), our disagreement probably concerns only the point where the balance lies. :-)

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