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Re: Wow--lots of highly subjective opinions spouted as facts.

Posted by MJR (A) on February 16, 2007 at 17:28:41

In Reply to: Wow--lots of highly subjective opinions spouted as facts. posted by jeffreybehr on February 16, 2007 at 16:00:27:

NOTE: Any views/ideas expressed in this post are opinions only.

I would like to move this thread into an inquisitive direction in an attempt to gain more clarity concerning this issue.

Q: "So what? Shouldn't we be trying to use the best we can find within our own definitions of affordability for each component, and 'component' includes pieces of wire?"

A: jeffreybehr, we should definitely be using the best. But I question what "the best" is. In theory, I do not see how a silver conductor IC introduced into an entirely copper signal path can be better than a copper IC. Yes, the capacitance and inductance of a cable can affect the transmission of high and low frequencies, respectively...But I have yet to see a study with any quantifiable evidence proving that using silver as a conductor in an audio IC can yield superior transmission of high or low frequencies or reduce the ubiquitous phenomenon of "skin effect," which, some of my own DIY designs have suffered from.

Q: Really? You've done a survey of manufacturers' claims? And I think your use of 'drastically' is careless.

A: No, I have not conducted a survey, however, again, high end IC manufacturers consistently fail to provide any scientific evidence and use generalizations about their own perceived and inherently biased predications about it sound.

Due to forum rules, I have masked the product and manufacturer name from the following excerpt I found on a very high end audio cable manufacturer's website:

"PRODUCTNAME interconnects are our new reference for SE analog
interconnects. This is absolutely the best sounding interconnect
that we have ever developed. The bare conductors cause less
dispersion (smearing) in the audio signal than fully or partially
insulated conductors, improving both high and low-frequency
resolution, focus and dynamics. PRODUCTNAME interconnects have
bare conductors with air dielectric between them, achieving the
extremely low capacitance per unit length. The low capacitance
of the PRODUCTNAME prevents degradation of dynamic, transient
music passages, while preserving detail. This makes the PRODUCTNAME exceptional for use with passive line-stages and tube
equipment. 99.99% pure Silver conductors in a custom stranded
configuration optimize high and low-frequency response by
minimizing skin-effect and stranding effects. If you are looking for
the ultimate in detail without high-frequency brightness or
sibilance, this interconnect delivers this in spades."

This manufacturer description of its very expensive IC makes only one quantifiable claim which relates to capacitance value. There is some factual data about the cable's construction, but the rest of the statements are generalizations.

Here is one particularly weak claim:

"99.99% pure Silver conductors in a custom stranded
configuration optimize high and low-frequency response by
minimizing skin-effect and stranding effects."

HOW does using pure silver conductors in a custom stranded configuration optimize high and low-frequency response and minimize skin effect? I want to see a white paper.

Q: "But if that $450 cable sounds TO ME better in MY system and I can afford it..."

A: "TO ME" may imply the placebo effect.

Yes, audio enthusiasts come from different backgrounds with varying budgets and spending habits, however, unless manufacturers can once again provide quantifiable evidence of how their ICs and proprietary designs are better than others (without giving away trade secrets), there will still be enthusiasts purchasing high end cables on the belief of it "sounding better TO THEM."

Q: "Each of us has to make his/her own decisions about this stuff, and your blanket nonfacts don't help any of us in that process."

A: I firmly believe that high-end audio cable manufacturers do exactly that, provide "nonfacts" and generalizations in an attempt to sell a product. Marketing 101 teaches us to make a product look good for the purpose of selling it. However, from an engineering point-of-view, an engineer will look at specifications and factual data before using a component in an electronic circuit/mechanical project. The audio community is surrounded by hype, myth, and personal subjective evaluation and bias. There tends to be widespread misunderstanding and beliefs shrouded in reviews which again provide little to no quantification of claims made. I want to know what makes a silver IC "sound better" than a copper IC, etc...

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

Schiit Audio

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